Firefox Was Always Enough • Hacker News Board

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#211

Post by criddell » Wed, Dec 16, 2020, 5:53 PM UTC

walrus01 wrote: post #147

etempleton wrote: post #2

I will make the same comment I made on another post regarding Firefox and Mozilla: a few tips from from no one: 1. Rewrite the Mozilla mission statement. I read that and have no idea what your organization does. Mission statements seem like corporate naval gazing, but if it is honest and well written it keeps everyone focused on what you are working towards. 2. Refocus on Firefox R&D and core technologies - Firefox n…

> 3. Invest more in Thunderbird the application and develop Thunderbird the privacy focus email service for independent professionals and small businesses. While I agree that Thunderbird as a standalone Windows/MacOS/Linux desktop email client is a very important project, and needs to be continued, maintained and refined, the paradigm of email has moved on somewhat since 2003. People need to be able to do more than j…

I've been using Thunderbird for close to 15 years and 2021 is probably the year I'll stop because of how poorly it works with Office 365. It's kind of a bummer but hard to get that upset about it because I really don't like email to start with.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#212

Post by 1_player » Wed, Dec 16, 2020, 5:53 PM UTC

Semaphor wrote: post #121

only_friends wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or in Windows

I’ll have to disagree there. It’s by far the best on Windows.

Agreed with you, the best Firefox experience is on Windows. Hardware acceleration is on point, always very snappy rendering with no lag. Can't say the same about FF on macOS or Linux, where the experience is worse.

Support for CoreAnimation compositing was added last year. Support for hardware acceleration on Linux was added this week.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#213

Post by ska » Wed, Dec 16, 2020, 5:53 PM UTC

senux wrote: post #144

buran77 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What many don't realize is the reason open/free software doesn't easily make it in the corporate zone is that there's no company behind them to put their name behind an SLA. This and integration with the ecosystem (MS has an easier time selling Windows+365+Exchange+cloudstuff). The jump from "providing an email client" to "providing a privacy focus email service for independent professionals and small businesses" is…

Not to mention that companies like Google and Microsoft also offer different levels of technical support alongside their products. For smaller companies, or companies that want to invest less in their technology stack IT department, it sounds like a better deal to have all services provided and backed by a larger computation corporation (even if that's not always actually cheaper in the long run).

For small/new companies, approx $15/head/mo for 365 (however it's branded now) is pretty hard to argue with. That gives you sharepoint/onedrive exchange & teams, and all the usual word/excel/outlook etc.

You can go quite a ways with that before you would get close to breaking even on even a single dedicated IT person. Assuming their cloud services etc. fit your business needs of course - but that's an awful lot of companies.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#214

Post by jonathansampson » Wed, Dec 16, 2020, 5:54 PM UTC

deadbunny wrote: post #189

rewddit wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as an FYI, Brave has done some sketchy stuff in the past, including inserting affiliate links / ads into content.

Their entire business model is sketchy. They'll collect payments on your behalf whether you're signed up to them or not while removing your ad revenue.

This is incorrect, and based on misinformation from 2018. In 2018, Brave users could tip unverified content creators with BAT. Those tokens would go into a settlement wallet until claimed by the intended recipient. This was a bad design.

Within 48 hours we had a new build of Brave out which held the tips locally, in the browser. The tip would be attempted for up to 90 days; if the unverified publisher were to verify within that time, the tip would be sent to their wallet. If the 90 days passed, the user's BAT would be released within the browser to be distributed elsewhere.

You can read more about these changes in our blog post from December of 2018: https://brave.com/rewards-update/.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#215

Post by robertlagrant » Wed, Dec 16, 2020, 5:54 PM UTC

simias wrote: post #127

etempleton wrote: post #2

I will make the same comment I made on another post regarding Firefox and Mozilla: a few tips from from no one: 1. Rewrite the Mozilla mission statement. I read that and have no idea what your organization does. Mission statements seem like corporate naval gazing, but if it is honest and well written it keeps everyone focused on what you are working towards. 2. Refocus on Firefox R&D and core technologies - Firefox n…

You won't be able to beat Chrome by technology alone. I actually don't know how Mozilla can beat Chrome. Google has an extremely strong incentive to capture the web client market. Whatever Mozilla can do to make Firefox more popular, Google can outspend them by a factor 10 and do more, or better, or both. I want Firefox to win but unfortunately I just don't see a path for it. My mindset at the moment is "I'm going to…

One big area where Firefox could win is privacy. The problem is that currently most of their money comes from Google, which means privacy will always be pretty limited. Perhaps £5/yr fees would fund an alternative?

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#216

Post by Macha » Wed, Dec 16, 2020, 5:54 PM UTC

walrus01 wrote: post #147

etempleton wrote: post #2

I will make the same comment I made on another post regarding Firefox and Mozilla: a few tips from from no one: 1. Rewrite the Mozilla mission statement. I read that and have no idea what your organization does. Mission statements seem like corporate naval gazing, but if it is honest and well written it keeps everyone focused on what you are working towards. 2. Refocus on Firefox R&D and core technologies - Firefox n…

> 3. Invest more in Thunderbird the application and develop Thunderbird the privacy focus email service for independent professionals and small businesses. While I agree that Thunderbird as a standalone Windows/MacOS/Linux desktop email client is a very important project, and needs to be continued, maintained and refined, the paradigm of email has moved on somewhat since 2003. People need to be able to do more than j…

> a fully open source GPL licensed, self-hostable, webmail server application that fulfills the same functions as rainloop or roundcube, implemented in the Thunderbird name. Maybe it could have its own new GUI to run inside the browser, or it could offer an optional "traditional" GUI that is similar to the Thunderbird desktop client. This has a possibility for a natural symbiotic relationship with Firefox, as the best and most optimal web browser client to view the webmail.

If this shares neither the thunderbird feature set or UX, why does it have to be called thunderbird? I still use thunderbird because it's UX efficiency for dealing with large volumes of mail blow away the Gmail and Fastmail web interfaces.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#217

Post by kd913 » Wed, Dec 16, 2020, 5:55 PM UTC

Bakary wrote: post #210

kd913 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think any of this fundamentally beats the main problem. That being platform control and advertising. Google advertises chrome with it's services and is the incumbent. It's also preloaded and unremovable on Android. Microsoft advertises edgium on Windows and makes it unremovable. Apple only allows webkit and safari clones on their platform. Firefox even if it's the best browser in the world would have the same…

It's not that we can't be bothered to flash Linux, but that we can't be bothered to deal with the incompatibility issues we will have after we have flashed it.

Again if you are talking about words like 'incompatability' then you are probably closer to the enthusiast techie type 5% than the 95% majority.

That majority doesn't even know about Linux or what flashing even is. They just bought a box from bestbuy/amazon so they can access the internet and email. They stick to the manufacturer defaults and would be stuck with Chrome, Edgium or Safari.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#218

Post by johannes1234321 » Wed, Dec 16, 2020, 5:55 PM UTC

takluyver wrote: post #154

jillesvangurp wrote: post #133

I'm a happy Firefox user. IMHO the thing that needs sorting out is the relation between Mozilla the company and Mozilla the Foundation. I just browsed the website of the Mozilla Foundation and to my surprise learned that Firefox development is not one of its responsibilities. I was assuming that that was in fact its primary mission. It's not apparently. Maybe I'm wrong and it's just a vague website but it reads to me…

The Mozilla foundation owns the corporation, so it's not 'run by shareholders' in the normal sense. Any profit it makes stays in Mozilla. I think they set it up like this because some things are legally easier to do as a for-profit corporation than as a non-profit.

That is true, however routing funds (donations) from foundation to corp is hard, thus only very little $, ¥, €, ... of the money donated go to browser development, while the brand is tightly tied to it. Browser development is funded out of corp budget, which mostly is Google's money for being default search engine. Thus I can't even donate to browser development ...

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#219

Post by DonHopkins » Wed, Dec 16, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

dblohm7 wrote: post #169

input_sh wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention half of Mozilla's board of directors at the time quit because of him.

(I work for Mozilla and was there when this all happened) That is false. Only one of them quit "because of" him. You don't need to take my word for it: Stephen Shankland's piece [1] is the least-inaccurate account of what happened there. And in fact, your statement is not even logical. Think about it: Who hires a CEO? A company's board. Now you're saying that a huge chunk of the board quit because of a hire that they…

You forgot to mention the most important and commonly misstated fact that Brendan Eich was NOT fired, and was NOT asked to resign, and was NOT "kicked out".

The false narratives that the board fired him, and also that half the board quit because of him, both directly contradict the official statement published on the Mozilla Blog, and Brendan's own words he published on Twitter:

https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/04/05/faq-on-ceo-resignat...

>On April 3, 2014 Brendan Eich voluntarily stepped down as CEO of Mozilla. [...]

>Q: Was Brendan Eich fired?

>A: No, Brendan Eich resigned. Brendan himself said:

>“I have decided to resign as CEO effective April 3rd, and leave Mozilla. Our mission is bigger than any one of us, and under the present circumstances, I cannot be an effective leader. I will be taking time before I decide what to do next.”

>Brendan Eich also blogged on this topic.

>Q: Was Brendan Eich asked to resign by the Board?

>A: No. It was Brendan’s idea to resign, and in fact, once he submitted his resignation, Board members tried to get Brendan to stay at Mozilla in another C-level role.

Despite that irrefutable proof of Mozilla's and Brendan's own words that he resigned of his own free will, and the Board actually wanted him to stay, GamerGate followers love to spread conspiracy theories based on those false narratives, framing Brendan as a victim and martyr, instead of respecting the human rights of the people whose marriages Brendan donated his money to destroy.

Re: Firefox Was Always Enough

#220

Post by deadbunny » Wed, Dec 16, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

DonHopkins wrote: post #188

SmokeyHamster wrote: post #54

>The problem? Firefox’s founders are all long, long gone. Brendan and Mitchell are Mozilla’s founders. Well then, you should have thought about that before you forcibly kicked out founder Brendan Eich because you disliked his unrelated politics. You can be a woke company that belittles everyone who doesn't share your narrow ideology or a company that makes a good web browser with a sound business model. You can't be…

> you forcibly kicked out founder Brendan Eich That is total bullshit. Get your facts straight, and stop pushing your batshit crazy GamerGate conspiracy theories that are based on lies. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25303513 Mozilla didn't fire Brendan Eich. He resigned of his own free will, against the Mozilla board's request that he stay. His own words and the Mozilla FAQ quoted below, I'm not just making th…

In the 2nd link you posted Brendan Eich himself replies to you tell you to search for "constructive separation". So while he "quit" it didn't sound like he had much of an option.

I disagree with his views and believe Mozilla did the right thing in severing ties but I don't think it's as cut and dry as you're making it sound. It definitely comes across as a "We expect your resignation by the end of the day or shit will get messy for everyone" situation.