Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's definitely not the best browser on macOS.
or in Windows
I’ll have to disagree there. It’s by far the best on Windows.
Firefox Was Always Enough
121–130 of 611 posts
Re: Firefox Was Always Enough
#122I will make the same comment I made on another post regarding Firefox and Mozilla: a few tips from from no one: 1. Rewrite the Mozilla mission statement. I read that and have no idea what your organization does. Mission statements seem like corporate naval gazing, but if it is honest and well written it keeps everyone focused on what you are working towards. 2. Refocus on Firefox R&D and core technologies - Firefox n…
> 3. Invest more in Thunderbird the application and develop Thunderbird the privacy focus email service for independent professionals and small businesses. I know Mozilla's non-Firefox projects aren't popular here, but if Thunderbird really wanted a niche in the business world Mozilla would need to start an email service to go with it. The age of non-integrated email clients for the average user ended a while ago.
If standalone email clients really are dead for the average user, that to me would suggest Thunderbird should focus on power-users and/or corporate deployments, not that it should shift its focus to being part of yet another "service". It's perfectly fine to make a product with an audience that isn't everyone on Earth.
Re: Firefox Was Always Enough
#123I will make the same comment I made on another post regarding Firefox and Mozilla: a few tips from from no one: 1. Rewrite the Mozilla mission statement. I read that and have no idea what your organization does. Mission statements seem like corporate naval gazing, but if it is honest and well written it keeps everyone focused on what you are working towards. 2. Refocus on Firefox R&D and core technologies - Firefox n…
I agree with your numbers 1 and 2. But I couldn't disagree more with number 3. Thunderbird is always going to be a niche product with a much smaller potential user base than Firefox. More or less every corporation and every individual user out there is a potential consumer of Firefox--every single one who uses the web. Thunderbird? Not so much. Many consumers prefer web-based e-mail clients or e-mail clients tied dir…
> If anything, they should spin off development of Thunderbird into a separate company with its own independent funding structure.
They already did that.
- In 2012 Mozilla (the corporation) started this move by announcing that "Thunderbird was not a priority for Mozilla" [1]. At this point Mozilla (corp) stopped actively investing in Thunderbird.
- In 2015, Mitchel Baker made it clear that the Mozilla (corp) wanted to get rid of Thunderbird [2]. At this point the Mozilla corp started shutting down support services for the Thunderbird project.
- In 2017 Thunderbird was legally moved to the Mozilla Foundation (instead of the corporation) and started surviving mostly on its own, with some minor help from the Mozilla Foundation [3]. Here Mozilla (corp), the company responsible for Firefox, already got rid of Thunderbird entirely.
- In 2020, it became clear that Thunderbird can survive entirely on its own donations and could even try to provide commercial services. Thus, the Mozilla Foundation created a new "MZLA Technologies Corporation" that is now the legal entity responsible of Thunderbird [4]. MZLA Tech is not responsible for any other product that I know of.
[1] https://blog.lizardwrangler.com/2012/07/06/thunderbird-stabi...
[2] https://groups.google.com/g/mozilla.governance/c/kAyVlhfEcXg...
[3] https://blog.thunderbird.net/2017/05/thunderbirds-future-hom...
[4] https://blog.thunderbird.net/2020/01/thunderbirds-new-home/
Re: Firefox Was Always Enough
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would use Thunderbird in a heartbeat at my current job if it could seamlessly connect to Exchange.
Even Microsoft seems to be moving to the cloud, but your point has been valid for a very long time.
That’s an orthogonal issue as Microsoft’s cloud email offering is still (a version of) Exchange and supports MAPI/EAS all the same.
Re: Firefox Was Always Enough
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
Firefox is already the best browser and has been for a long time. The problem is that most laypeople don't even know it exists. Combined with dark patterns used by microsoft and google to steer users toward their own browsers, it's an uphill battle. I'll stick firefox and appropriate extensions on a friends computer so they can watch youtube etc completely ad free, which is a major tangible QOL improvement, but then…
For me Firefox has been chasing the Chrome market share by trying to replicate the Chrome user experience for so long it's no longer distinct from Chrome in a meaningful way. Give me the Firefox experience from ten years ago and I'll drop Chrome on the spot.
So, slow? I switched from FF to Chrome back then because Chrome was much faster. Before Quantum, FF couldn’t hold a candle to Chrome performance-wise.
Disclaimer: For my use-case, which did not include having 1000 tabs open forever.
Re: Firefox Was Always Enough
#126Re: Firefox Was Always Enough
#127I will make the same comment I made on another post regarding Firefox and Mozilla: a few tips from from no one: 1. Rewrite the Mozilla mission statement. I read that and have no idea what your organization does. Mission statements seem like corporate naval gazing, but if it is honest and well written it keeps everyone focused on what you are working towards. 2. Refocus on Firefox R&D and core technologies - Firefox n…
You won't be able to beat Chrome by technology alone. I actually don't know how Mozilla can beat Chrome.
Google has an extremely strong incentive to capture the web client market. Whatever Mozilla can do to make Firefox more popular, Google can outspend them by a factor 10 and do more, or better, or both.
I want Firefox to win but unfortunately I just don't see a path for it. My mindset at the moment is "I'm going to use Firefox for as long as it's possible, and then I'll find the least crappy Chromium fork available".
I don't know if it'll take 6 months or 6 years to get to that point but I really don't have faith in Mozilla righting the ship.
Re: Firefox Was Always Enough
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, it is integrated with Google, in that it uses the Google API. However, relevant to this thread, it's not developed by Google, as Thunderbird would not be. And so Thunderbird could still provide value as such a client.
> for the average user I think this was the key. No average user I know uses an email client on their PC, outside of the corporate one. It's one more thing to take care of and average users rarely want that. It's easier on mobile where people are used with the "app" concept, not really on the PC. This is one reason why Thunderbird doesn't enjoy the kind of popularity browser based email does.
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Re: Firefox Was Always Enough
#129Mozilla should launch a stripped-down version of Firefox, with all the past 20 years' legacy support removed. No quirk mode etc. Just bare minimum implementation of modern core web tech. How fast would it be?
Re: Firefox Was Always Enough
#130Safari is definitely in the technological pessimism camp as that's Apple's party line on the open web. Safari has continuously caused "headache" to businesses that rely on tracking user behavior for years now, as Apple is very bent on protecting your privacy from every other company outside or inside their walled garden.
They claim to be in the technological pessimism camp. I don't believe their poor support for progressive web apps is truly about privacy and security, but rather to force apps to go through their App Store so they get a cut of the revenue.
There are exceptions to that though. They did a lot of work to get Google Docs working well in Safari, even though Google has (bad) native apps.