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Stalking her daughter’s killers across Mexico, one by one

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Re: Stalking her daughter’s killers across Mexico, one by one

#171

Post by sam_goody »

Gustomaximus wrote: post #157
Mustache wrote: post #77

I've been trying to think of ideas of how they could help themselves. The only thing I can think of is to use technology - camera's everywhere, body cams and tracking devices on vehicles and people. I know they aren't wealthy, but the town could put cameras on the streets like the do in London. I'm just brainstorming here... Such a sad situation they are in.

I've pondered on this and wonder if religion could be the answer. I say this as an atheist. But churches, typically already established well in these areas, could have the community structure combines with good social values and zeal/commitment, even fanaticism to see through what would likely be tough time initially to cleaning up areas. Something along the lines of a Knights Templar where segment of a community dev…

To quote a speech I heard in college: "It frustrates me to no end that, as a species, the religious are more fit. Their communities are more structured, and have less crime and violence. Their families larger, more nuclear and more supportive of each other. Their members are more relaxed, and have more purpose to their lives.

Evolution would state that, eventually, only the religious will survive. If there is a God, He is laughing."

Nonetheless, I don't think that would help here - the society has passed critical mass of crime, the incentives are for everyone to be criminal, and religion itself would be subverted for its use.

Re: Stalking her daughter’s killers across Mexico, one by one

#172

Post by thelittleone »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #165
3131s wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who is from the US but lives in a poor country, it's hard to imagine what it would be like to take the already dire situations of place like this and then add in 2-3x the drug trafficking violence compared to the US. Legalizing most recreational drugs around the world is absolutely imperative! If it is not done sooner than later then the largest drug trafficking organizations will be so entrenched that it…

Legalizing recreational drugs may help, but it won't solve the problem; hard drugs are still a thing, the cocaine trade is booming (read an article that the amount of cocaine intercepted in the Rotterdam port has gone up 10x in the past three years, and that's just the stuff they catch; wouldn't be surprised if that represents only 10% of what comes in. The article mentioned that the interception doesn't seem to have…

Wait, insulin is in demand in a way comparable to illicit drugs? Can't it easily be accessed through prescription?

Re: Stalking her daughter’s killers across Mexico, one by one

#173

Post by addicted »

xenadu02 wrote: post #104
rayiner wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Legalise the drugs and allow legal production - and the cartels will have to find an honest way to make a living like the rest of us have to do. This is magical thinking. Organized crime can make money in other ways. This story is about kidnapping, for example. Organized crime exists in many places where it’s not funded by drug trade.

There just isn't nearly as much money in any alternatives. At its root money is required to maintain cartel power. Sure they aren't going to disappear overnight. But cutting out their most profitable product lines would make a huge dent without a doubt. We have a real-world example of that from Prohibition so it isn't entirely theoretical.

If there isn’t enough money, it only ends up making gangs more ruthless as they now have to compete for a smaller share of money with other gangs.

They end up extorting even more money from the local populace, and try and extend their fangs into other activities.

I’m not saying that legalizing drugs won’t help at all. But it’s unlikely it will help in places that already have gangs without other actions in addition.

Re: Stalking her daughter’s killers across Mexico, one by one

#174

Post by RobertoG »

rexpop wrote: post #140
TrackerFF wrote: post #118

Used to date a girl from Honduras (Tegucigalpa), and heard some real horror stories about the day-to-day crime. One day a gang knocked on her parents door (they owned an apartment) and pretty much gave them a 2-day notice to get out. They packed their stuff, and left. Their senior neighbor did not - she ended up getting killed. Apparently gangs like that just seize apartments, and use them for criminal activities (pr…

It's worth mentioning that the violence in Honduras is, in no small part, part of the US State Department's bipartisan foreign policy from which we benefit. Fast fashion, which Americans consume, is enabled by the precarious situations we've foist upon the Hondurans by destabilizing their government, and installing leadership sympathetic to our colonial interests. Your ex-girlfriend's uncle died for my t-shirt. > Ten…

Something I find interesting is how we get bombarded all the time about the bad conditions in Venezuela, but we heard very little about, for instance, Honduras and El Salvador.

Re: Stalking her daughter’s killers across Mexico, one by one

#175

Post by pepy »

thelittleone wrote: post #172
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legalizing recreational drugs may help, but it won't solve the problem; hard drugs are still a thing, the cocaine trade is booming (read an article that the amount of cocaine intercepted in the Rotterdam port has gone up 10x in the past three years, and that's just the stuff they catch; wouldn't be surprised if that represents only 10% of what comes in. The article mentioned that the interception doesn't seem to have…

Wait, insulin is in demand in a way comparable to illicit drugs? Can't it easily be accessed through prescription?

a diabetic training partner of mine told me that black market for the insulin is ridiculously developed

Re: Stalking her daughter’s killers across Mexico, one by one

#176

Post by Allenaz »

watermelon59 wrote: post #138
TrackerFF wrote: post #118

Used to date a girl from Honduras (Tegucigalpa), and heard some real horror stories about the day-to-day crime. One day a gang knocked on her parents door (they owned an apartment) and pretty much gave them a 2-day notice to get out. They packed their stuff, and left. Their senior neighbor did not - she ended up getting killed. Apparently gangs like that just seize apartments, and use them for criminal activities (pr…

Some areas of Brazil suffer from a lot of that too. Day-to-day violent crime was the #1 reason that I wanted to leave the country.

Me too, which is "funny" when it comes up in conversations, because people assume you left to earn more money, and then you tell them that you actually earned more in Brazil than you do now, but you have the constant fear of random violence.

Re: Stalking her daughter’s killers across Mexico, one by one

#177

Post by BaronSamedi »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #165
3131s wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who is from the US but lives in a poor country, it's hard to imagine what it would be like to take the already dire situations of place like this and then add in 2-3x the drug trafficking violence compared to the US. Legalizing most recreational drugs around the world is absolutely imperative! If it is not done sooner than later then the largest drug trafficking organizations will be so entrenched that it…

Legalizing recreational drugs may help, but it won't solve the problem; hard drugs are still a thing, the cocaine trade is booming (read an article that the amount of cocaine intercepted in the Rotterdam port has gone up 10x in the past three years, and that's just the stuff they catch; wouldn't be surprised if that represents only 10% of what comes in. The article mentioned that the interception doesn't seem to have…

One rarely discussed effect of drug legalization is that pharmaceutical companies would start developing recreational drugs. I expect they would create milder versions of current drugs specifically for the recreational market. That market would almost certainly be huge. Because of this, Big Pharma ought to be one of the biggest proponents of drug legalization. Whether the net effect on society would be positive or negative I do not know.

Re: Stalking her daughter’s killers across Mexico, one by one

#178

Post by minot »

Gunax wrote: post #155
drudu wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You serious think that taking away the stream of income that has put trillions of usd in the hands of cartels / organized crime won't have a huge impact?

I have doubts that it will fix the problem. It's not just drugs that these cartels control--it's kidnapping, avocados, cross-border smuggling, etc. It's possible the violence might actually increase, actually.

I think it is necessary — even if not sufficient — to end the war on drugs. The only exception I’m willing to make is proper labeling and safe storage conditions. It should ought to remain unlawful to distribute drugs without proper labeling. We will need to come up with labeling standards.

Re: Stalking her daughter’s killers across Mexico, one by one

#179

Post by mschuster91 »

29athrowaway wrote: post #143
TrackerFF wrote: post #118

Used to date a girl from Honduras (Tegucigalpa), and heard some real horror stories about the day-to-day crime. One day a gang knocked on her parents door (they owned an apartment) and pretty much gave them a 2-day notice to get out. They packed their stuff, and left. Their senior neighbor did not - she ended up getting killed. Apparently gangs like that just seize apartments, and use them for criminal activities (pr…

At least in El Salvador, things are getting better. The Salvadoran president, Najib Bukele, a 39 year old businessman is effectively controlling gang activity. He is a pretty cool guy, and serves his country without collecting his salary. Gangs in Central America extort people with jobs, so that in the end it's too inconvenient to have a job, and more convenient to be a gangster. If you have a honest job, some random…

> The Salvadoran president, Najib Bukele, a 39 year old businessman is effectively controlling gang activity.

Some say that this is due to... shady deals with gang leaders: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-54033444

Bukele is also under fire for attacking freedom of the press: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-06/el-salvad...

Re: Stalking her daughter’s killers across Mexico, one by one

#180

Post by mschuster91 »

rayiner wrote: post #99
BXLE_1-1-BitIs1 wrote: post #95

Criminalization of drugs is a price support program for the cartels. Legalise the drugs and allow legal production - and the cartels will have to find an honest way to make a living like the rest of us have to do.

> Legalise the drugs and allow legal production - and the cartels will have to find an honest way to make a living like the rest of us have to do. This is magical thinking. Organized crime can make money in other ways. This story is about kidnapping, for example. Organized crime exists in many places where it’s not funded by drug trade.

> Organized crime can make money in other ways.

None of these has the absurd profit spans of drugs, though. You need about ~600-800 US$ worth of raw coca leafs to produce 1kg base cocaine (https://www.businessinsider.com/from-colombia-to-new-york-ci...) - and make ~25-27k US$ once it's on US streets. A vertical cartel that controls everything from the leaves to the sellers can capture all that 41.000% profit margin for themselves!

When the biggest markets US and EU "dry up" for illegal sales of cocaine, the gangs literally don't have anyone any more to extort for money - the population of South America is dirt poor. And also, they can't afford running militia that are more capable than some nations' armies or bribing the utter majority of the political class any more once these tasty US dollars vanish.

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