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The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

taibbi.substack.com

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Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#171

Post by Symbiote »

pensatoio wrote: post #165
deeviant wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Democracy and free speech are intrinsically linked. Not really. UK has far more limits on speech than the US but is just as much of a Democracy as the US. "Free" speech has be weaponized in the internet age. It is a cancer that is actively destroying democracy.

It's patently not, and that's the parent comment's point. Free speech is highly restricted in the United Kingdom.

Free speech is slightly restricted.

Otherwise, you run out of words to describe most other countries.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#172

Post by andromeduck »

deeviant wrote: post #155
swiley wrote: post #2

If you reject the idea that people are intelligent enough to think about politics for themselves then you reject the idea that they're intelligent enough to govern themselves. Democracy and free speech are intrinsically linked.

> Democracy and free speech are intrinsically linked. Not really. UK has far more limits on speech than the US but is just as much of a Democracy as the US. "Free" speech has be weaponized in the internet age. It is a cancer that is actively destroying democracy.

the erosion of free speech and individual freedom is what allows the institutions of democracy to atrophy

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#173

Post by charonn0 »

nprz wrote: post #49
Spartan-S63 wrote: post #16

These types of articles are always insane to me. YouTube is a private company. They're pretty much allowed to moderate the content on their platform in an arbitrary way. I would argue that this is a good thing. We can't have it both ways, but we want it both ways. We want a non-government controlled way to communicate, but we want to mandate that they're liable to uphold the same First Amendment protections that the…

Do you think payment processors and ISPs should be able to deny service to customers for any arbitrary reason as well?

That's not a reasonable analogy. a) Youtube's decision (wise or not) is not arbitrary. b) Neither video creators nor viewers are "customers" of Youtube.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#174

Post by CharlesW »

olefoo wrote: post #150

This is all the result of confusing 1st amendment rights with the right to access the audience that gathers at a particular URL. What Taibbi is asking for is that the guy who tells you that drinking rat poison is good for you should be allowed an audience and that even putting a warning alongside the video would be an infringement on his rights. Looking at the comments here I have to conclude that HN is no longer on…

Yes. I'm heartened to see that someone in this thread understands what rights the First Amendment actually guarantees.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#175

Post by tootie »

jiofih wrote: post #4

Then what? Allowing false information to fester is wrong, censorship is wrong. The way forward is to ban recommendation algorithms and go back to personal (as in, from other humans you know) recommendation systems.

I definitely see how YT content policy is a fraught subject but it's unbelievably naïve to say it's risking the radicalization of a group of people giving life to a 17-state effort to nullify the popular vote in the artificially packed Supreme Court. I'm willing to err on the side of not placating a faction of society that are already sold on fascism as our best path forward.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#176

Post by prucomaclu2 »

Vomzor wrote: post #65
appleflaxen wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

was this presented in court? what were the courts' findings?

So far it has not. The courts have shot down the the lawsuits on procedural grounds without looking at the evidence. Several states have held hearings were a lot of these allegations are discussed in detail. The hour long hearings are on youtube. Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkqFTUEvMoU Wisconsin State Legislature Election Hearing is still live streaming when I post this. Second edit: Why is my first comment…

Your reply was probably flagged because it had only a link. Generally people expect some content to go with a link.

I also doubt most people on HN have the patience to wait for that site to load. It took like a minute.

And of course it's pro-Trump, but I'm sure that's only a small reason why it was flagged.

(Odd thing, I posted a comment to you earlier and it's not visible except when I am logged in. Hopefully at least you saw it.)

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#177

Post by MeinBlutIstBlau »

Spartan-S63 wrote: post #16

These types of articles are always insane to me. YouTube is a private company. They're pretty much allowed to moderate the content on their platform in an arbitrary way. I would argue that this is a good thing. We can't have it both ways, but we want it both ways. We want a non-government controlled way to communicate, but we want to mandate that they're liable to uphold the same First Amendment protections that the…

Can you call something a private company when they are the defacto monopolistic standard? What other video social media sites are there that eve remotely come close to competing?

When that happens, you're either basically a utility for the public, or a monopoly and need to be broken up. This whole concept that these "first amendment protects companies even though they control the market" reasonings are just absurd. It's exactly like defending the railroads for not wanting to ship black people because they don't have rails for "colored folk" and since they're a "private company" they can do what they want.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#178

Post by MeinBlutIstBlau »

charonn0 wrote: post #173
nprz wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think payment processors and ISPs should be able to deny service to customers for any arbitrary reason as well?

That's not a reasonable analogy. a) Youtube's decision (wise or not) is not arbitrary. b) Neither video creators nor viewers are "customers" of Youtube.

The fact that we see ads says otherwise...

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#179

Post by makomk »

treeman79 wrote: post #132
jfrunyon wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, you're SO right. Fox News has so much trouble getting advertisers. So do Rush Limbaugh and Alex Jones.

Fox News has crappy advertisers. Ones that don’t give a crap what others think. Need some gold coins? Rush used to talk all the time about the nasty calls his clients got. It was routine for them to get flooded with hate calls.

Yeah, and othre mainstream media organisations - including the freaking New York Times - have successfully campaign dto get many of their remaining advertisers to pull out. To the point where, at least if the people campaigning for this were to be believed, many of the targetted Fox shows couldn't get ads at all.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#180

Post by 7786655 »

enkid wrote: post #104
roenxi wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Allowing false information to fester is wrong... That sounds good, but it is not true. If the CEO of YouTube was a committed Hindi the public would demand that he overlook Buddhist/Muslim/Christian/Atheist content on his platform. Tolerance of people we truly believe to be wrong is a key value that needs to be preserved. The sort of people who talk about "false information" in their policies tend to be running more…

What about people who earnestly believe that genocide is justifiable? What should YouTube do with that content? Or people advocating Euthanasia of mentally handicapped individual? I'm not saying I know a good line, but there clearly is one.

They should leave it up, obviously.

I mean they have the right to take it down, but if I were running YouTube I wouldn't.

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