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The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

taibbi.substack.com

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Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#151

Post by stonogo »

IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #103
tomohawk wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Science does not talk about right or wrong. It talks about things that are falsifiable. If there is an idea that so far has not been falsified, it becomes the established scientific fact. However, someone else may come up with a better idea. Do we prevent them from talking about it or collaborating with people? It may take some time and lots of communication and collaboration to get to the bottom of it. Years or even…

So... the existence of God is "established scientific fact"? Because it hasn't exactly been falsified as far as I know.

The parent post took some linguistic shortcuts, but I'll mention for completeness (and in case you're genuinely confused) that "the existence of God" is not a concept the scientific method can or should be applied to, because it is not possible to falsify that claim. A better phrasing of the sentence would be "If there is a falsifiable idea that so far has not been falsified, it may be considered established scientific fact." Scientific progress occurs not just by discovering new tenets, but by disproving incorrect ones, and nobody's come up with an objective test for the presence or absence of the Divine.

Emotions flare because faith is a deeply personal issue, but from a lab protocol standpoint it's not a testable hypothesis, and thus not really worth arguing about.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#152

Post by chordalkeyboard »

nonbirithm wrote: post #112
tbatchelli wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are rational most of the times, and act based on the well of knowledge they have at the time. When you choose to promote certain content because of its high engagement benefits you given its controversial nature, then you are poisoning the well of knowledge for each individual. If you do so in a feedback loop, considering what they were interested in before, you accelerate your earnings as well as the poisonin…

There has to be a good reason why psychological warfare is used, including by the United States in periods like the Vietnam War. The expectation is that statements written on paper or recited through loudspeakers or similar influence people's thoughts, which influences what actions they will take. Those actions are supposed to be beneficial to the forces scattering them from a helicopter or posting them on walls. The…

> I think the issue is centered not around people trying to have a reasoned debate, but those who have been lost to debate more or less permanently. Previously, you couldn't scatter this kind of information about on the scale were seeing today

you and I couldn't. Oligarchs and their governments could and did. The difference is that now their position is threatened by the democratization of information warfare.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#153

Post by bob33212 »

gabereiser wrote: post #9
swiley wrote: post #2

If you reject the idea that people are intelligent enough to think about politics for themselves then you reject the idea that they're intelligent enough to govern themselves. Democracy and free speech are intrinsically linked.

YouTube can choose to keep or delete any content on their platform regardless of truth/free speech/or not. It's in the EULA. You want free speech, go outside and yell. No one is stopping anyone from free speech. What Google is doing is cleaning up content on their service according to their EULA. If you disagree with the EULA, you can gladly go use another service. I will add, targeting a specific genre of videos loo…

Content filtering is impossible to get right.

For Example, Holocaust denial is shitty and something that anyone should be allowed to ban just because they don't want to be associated with it. The problem is that you have to draw the line somewhere between "The Jews faked the Holocaust and none of it ever happened" and " The exact number of deaths in the Holocaust will never been known but it was in the millions". The first statement is clearly false, the second statement could be an attempt to downplay the magnitude of the event, but it is hard to say without context and you may never know the intent of the person who said it.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#154

Post by motohagiography »

I have a few past comments on HN about how electronic voting was a recipe for civil unrest for the precise reasons that are playing out right now and that Taibbi gives examples of.

Google, Facebook and Apple are becoming less American companies as they are a kind of post-national versions of the British East India Company where they operate mainly as the arms of an empire, and instead of opium, they traffic in attention. Their interests are inseparable from those of the permanent state, and this year has been the moment when they have taken on that role in earnest.

The recent bans are tripling down on the wrong side of the issue, and what's most frustrating to me is that in over 100 years never have there been so many who were at once so wealthy and so wrong, and I can't see what the trade is.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#155

Post by deeviant »

swiley wrote: post #2

If you reject the idea that people are intelligent enough to think about politics for themselves then you reject the idea that they're intelligent enough to govern themselves. Democracy and free speech are intrinsically linked.

> Democracy and free speech are intrinsically linked.

Not really. UK has far more limits on speech than the US but is just as much of a Democracy as the US.

"Free" speech has be weaponized in the internet age. It is a cancer that is actively destroying democracy.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#156

Post by forest_dweller »

tibbydudeza wrote: post #54

Democracy will eventually die. “In sum, the majority of Americans are generally unable to understand or value democratic culture, institutions, practices or citizenship in the manner required”. “To the degree to which they are required to do so, they will interpret what is demanded of them in distorting and inadequate ways. As a result they will interact and communicate in ways that undermine the functioning of democ…

You make that sound like a bad thing? There are some that believe (as I do) that democracy will leads to oligarchy. But then again I've been reading a lot of Rothbard recently.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/iron-law-of-oligarchy

As for populism in a democratic system is a symptom of politicians/political parties not being seen by their citizens to be taking actions in regards to thorny subjects such as immigration, globalisation and law enforcement.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#157

Post by charonn0 »

swiley wrote: post #2

If you reject the idea that people are intelligent enough to think about politics for themselves then you reject the idea that they're intelligent enough to govern themselves. Democracy and free speech are intrinsically linked.

Free speech isn't implicated here.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#158

Post by [deleted] »

Spartan-S63 wrote: post #16

These types of articles are always insane to me. YouTube is a private company. They're pretty much allowed to moderate the content on their platform in an arbitrary way. I would argue that this is a good thing. We can't have it both ways, but we want it both ways. We want a non-government controlled way to communicate, but we want to mandate that they're liable to uphold the same First Amendment protections that the…

[deleted]

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#159

Post by amadeuspagel »

hindsightbias wrote: post #134
amadeuspagel wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seldomly see the ideals of people who believe in freedom of speech but stated so clearly. A world were corporations control all the information people consume but people can "go outside and yell" in frustration. This is the kind of freedom we must bring to Iran.

It’s the kind of freedom that existed for centuries in the US and of course we were all “free” then. While I’m sure Textualist/Originalists on the court will find innovations to legislate FB “yelling freedom” rights it has not been a historical norm.

I don't even know where to start here. Common carrier laws? The post office? Court cases forcing shopping malls and company towns to allow freedom of speech? I guess these are all innovations by the Textualist/Originalists you despise.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#160

Post by justinzollars »

siliconc0w wrote: post #47

It is amazing to me that there are so many people, smart people even, that are adamant that we shouldn't have free speech in society.

> It is amazing to me that there are so many people, smart people even, that are adamant that we shouldn't have free speech in society.

This can be attributed to nothing more than personal political bias. There is no way these people would be arguing for censorship if the censorship favored the other side.

It also makes me want to move. There is no advantage to being an American without the freedom of speech and press.

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