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A preview of x64 emulation on Windows for ARM

blogs.windows.com

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Re: A preview of x64 emulation on Windows for ARM

#151
post #145
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only on HN bubble does it matter. Apple devices are out of budget for most countries, and they only own 10% of the worldwide market share in computing. Outside desktop, Android owns the mobile market. Really, it is just US analysts going crazy with M1.

What's true to the US and HN "bubble" right now, will be the norm for the rest of the world a few years from now. no?

If Apple lowers their prices, maybe.

Re: A preview of x64 emulation on Windows for ARM

#152
post #3

This makes Windows on Apple M1 devices more attractive. I wonder when Microsoft will take up Apple on their offer to create a bootable OS for their hardware.

I think it's more likely that Microsoft will offer a cloud version of Windows for Mac users. A nicely packaged app that connects to an instance on Azure.

Re: A preview of x64 emulation on Windows for ARM

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

M1 can accelerate the shift of home users to Macs. Microsoft devices are already out-fashioned by apple. The Windows UX is also subpar comparing to Apple. Now the hardware is also gonna completely fall behind. If all the young people get mac's for their home computers, will the next generations use Windows at workplace? Im talking about 10-20 years landscape for Windows and Office.

I haven't noticed much acknowledgement of sole traders, as they're called in the UK. Very often when I see someone who's working for themselves they have a Macbook Air. While they're more expensive to buy new than many Windows laptops, the general sentiment from those I've spoken to seems to be: * It's worth the extra money for more reliable operation and fewer worries about malware. * Buying used is much less of a l…

UK is a tier 1 country, G7 member, many people can only dream of pound level salaries.

Re: A preview of x64 emulation on Windows for ARM

#155
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More importantly, you cannot use a dishwasher to create new things the designers didn't foresee. It's not a general purpose tool but an appliance. That's why the war on general purpose computing is so upsetting: it seeks to turn general purpose tools into appliances.

I think the point is that for the vast number of people, PCs are already appliances. It isn’t this change that made them into appliances, it was their natural change in usage - as noted by a previous poster.

For a lot of people -- yes.

But this will affect the future programmers and tinkerers, too. It's as if they are no longer wanted. "But, " you could argue, "hobbyists and enthusiasts can buy specialized hardware". Well, many if not most of the generation of enthusiasts that made the computing world of today possible started with general purpose hardware, not special hardware. They took the common hardware of their day and built stuff with it, doing things that were often not entirely foreseen by the makers of said hardware. And they didn't ask for permission.

If the world of tomorrow consists of most people using gadgets like iphones and ipads, and in order to tinker you need special-purpose hardware, I think we're shooting future kids in their collective feet.

Re: A preview of x64 emulation on Windows for ARM

#156
post #82

One really good side effect of this move is going to be that you can run Android apps with ease on Windows. I wonder if this will make people move towards apps instead of electron apps. Since android apps are made for low power devices, they would run with minimal resource consumption on laptops. They are pretty snappy too.

or we could just, you know, write better software. I'm not going to go on a whole rant about the link between software quality and hardware speed, but I will say this:

If we can write an app that does the job for a low power device, we can write the same app for a high power device and not make any compromises. I wonder why we don't do that. As in, why don't we develop software that runs as fast as it can? Some companies do, and it's really nice to see, and especially game developers are notoriously good at this. Yet, if I want a cross platform chat service, I usually have to put up with code running in a JS interpreter, through a JIT compiler, in a sandbox in a sandbox in a browser, burning CPU cycles so hard my laptop thermally throttles.

Re: A preview of x64 emulation on Windows for ARM

#158

Now we need an ARM processor that can compete with M1. Seems that Apple caught everyone with the pants down in the PC industry. Microsoft SQ2 processor that ships in their $1400 Surface Pro X is almost 50% slower than M1.

It would be hard to argue that the PC world won't at least make some attempt at shifting to ARM. Apple has demonstrated far too large of a performance and power efficiency savings to not try. Of course, even if that becomes successful, x86 will be available for decades.

Right now, ARM Macs are going to just be lost for any kind of gaming (except Catalyst versions of mobile games). This is probably ridiculous, but my dream is that the M-series chips become so compelling over the other options that the NEXT nextgen consoles would adopt it. Then we could get back to having at least a few of the biggies getting ported to Macs. But I can't even get my hands on the current new-gen PS, so this is a looong way off, even in the best case.

Re: A preview of x64 emulation on Windows for ARM

#159
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if desktop ARM becomes mainstream things could settle fairly quickly. It's less of a technical problem and more of a "why bother?" problem. This is exactly right, but I fear the incentives have changed and we'll never again see something like the x86/IBM-compatible/Wintel world of "standard" inter-compatible systems. As you say, it's a "why bother?" problem, and no manufacturer will want to bother: Apple has no int…

Microsoft selling Windows to DELL, HP, ... they will not start writing their own operating system. And at that point the same effect will start like it did with Microsoft/Intel/computer manufacturer. If Microsoft however succeed with their Surfaces like Apples does .. than maybe we are screwed. Luckily, they do not.

They do actually. Outside Apple heavens like US, Windows tablets and 2-1 laptops are the to go option, as Google keeps failing to move the Android ecosystem beyond phone apps on bigger screen.

Re: A preview of x64 emulation on Windows for ARM

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if desktop ARM becomes mainstream things could settle fairly quickly. It's less of a technical problem and more of a "why bother?" problem. This is exactly right, but I fear the incentives have changed and we'll never again see something like the x86/IBM-compatible/Wintel world of "standard" inter-compatible systems. As you say, it's a "why bother?" problem, and no manufacturer will want to bother: Apple has no int…

> Are there any powerful stakeholders who benefit from interoperability? All those companies selling motherboards for gamers etc?

So firms that sell speciality hardware direct to consumers? Are they big players?
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