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EU countries team up for semiconductor push

reuters.com

101–110 of 665 posts

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#101
Unfortunately, does anyone even takes the EU serious nowadays in tech? The more I follow the European tech scene, the more disappointed I become. EU's biggest tech company aside of ARM is Spotify... Almost every second startup I read about in https://www.eu-startups.com/ is a fintech/budgeting app which is trying to "disrupt" banking. Revolut is the biggest player, yet they are literally throwing money to achieve a miniscule growth, if you have a shitty product, your ad spend won't save you..

I feel like there is a need for a fundamental shift in mindset in Europe..

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#102
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"if someone can suffer the US' shitty conditions, " So crap, that people around the world are fighting to get in, what for those jobs that pay 2-3x, and real exciting projects to work on, and for the most part people that actually don't care about your funny accent. It's unwise to discount one of the US's fundamental, perennial and systematic advantages as somehow a drawback. Like it or not - the US has been sucking…

Some people prefer to live in societies with some semblance of basic humanity, where people don't go bankrupt and die from treatable illnesses. Or are just generally more rational than the average American.

"semblance of basic humanity"... Obviously you have your own metric on that. The United States takes in more immigrants than any other nation and has done this for hundreds of years. You just have hate within you and it shows.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people prefer to live in societies with some semblance of basic humanity, where people don't go bankrupt and die from treatable illnesses. Or are just generally more rational than the average American.

"semblance of basic humanity"... Obviously you have your own metric on that. The United States takes in more immigrants than any other nation and has done this for hundreds of years. You just have hate within you and it shows.

I know. My mother was an immigrant to the US. I've also seen family members go broke and commit suicide after being unable to afford medical care that would otherwise would have been provided to them in more humane countries. Apologies if this colors my view of America's "humanity."

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#104
post #71
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Netflix, IBM IBM and Google both came almost directly from government money. Amazon, Microsoft and Netflix are arguably actual startups.

Although Microsoft really started as a subcontractor for IBM, which again shows the knock-on effects good government subsidies can have. Hadn't the DoD started SV, most of these companies wouldn't exist today.

That's true, i just wanted to point out that two of the given examples were blatantly false.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#105
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some cases it works better than others, and often it's needed. Consider that in the US, the decisions are also 'made from the Top' but often from large investment firms that decide where the money goes. When an industry is small and new, it's more open. But for commercial aircraft like for regular airlines, there is zero hope unless the government coordinates it. There's no 'hey, invest $20 Billion in my startup,…

There is at least one YC company that would beg to differ with respect to airlines. Boom Technology. https://boomsupersonic.com

It's an example of the opposite.

'Boom' is a tiny little venture company that may or may not make actual commercial viability, in a niche sector.

Boom is not remotely trying to enter the market for real commercial traffic, which is essentially impossible for a regular private company.

There are no successful airline manufactures that exist without the expressed coordination of a national strategy.

Boeing is a 'strategic asset' - they are supported by massive military contracts and other industrial subsidies. They have Federal level support from the diplomatic corps and may involve themselves in foreign policy. Sales of aircraft may be tied to other mechanisms of statecraft.

Airbus - even more so, practically a creation of European governments.

To give an example of what happens when nations are not powerful, look at Bombardier in Canada - which was squeezed out of a more niche are of commercial aircraft by state actions.

Boeing complained to Donald Trump about 'unfair competition' - the US - against NAFTA treaty - imposed a 250% duty on Bombardier jets. To get around this, Bombardier had to drop their pants and do an ugly deal with Airbus. Eventually, this inability to flex material power in conjunction with other state assets ... and it's a flop for Canada, and a 'win' for a bigger entity backed by a more powerful state entity as the commercial aircraft business was sold off to Airbus.

If Canada had a huge domestic market, this probably would not be the case.

Edit: it's possible Boom eventually develops into a much bigger entity, maybe in 40 years, using their 'smaller, currently niche but growing industry' as an entry point. But taking on Boeing is tantamount to taking on Microsoft directly.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#106
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Energy, Steel, Semi(ARM), Pharma, Luxury, Distribution, Telecom Giants in Europe, there are a lot more Only Americans think the opposite, i wonder why.. And speaking of market, Europe is a big player, https://www.vgchartz.com/ console sales speak for itself Stop being brainwashed

The EU is ahead of the US in crude steel production, but we're about 6 times behind China.[0] ARM is in the UK and not the EU. It's owned by a Japanese company and soon an American one. Does Europe do that well in pharmaceuticals? It looks to me like the US is leading in biomedical research publications. [1] Some European countries are ahead when measured per capita, but only some and that's not an important figure h…

>ARM is in the UK

Except that ARM has many offices outside the UK developing important IP. Their Mali Bifrost and Valhall GPU architectures are mainly developed in Scandinavia by former Falanx Microsystems of Norway, aquired by ARM in 2006, hence the norse naming.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is TSMC being taken over by China?

Only 14 out of 193 UN countries recognize Taiwan as an independent state. Given how Hong Kong was forced to bend the knee recently, I'd say this is a reasonable worry.

But many do provide support "unofficially". And HK was already under "one country, two systems", while Taiwan is de facto independent even if the PRC claims it.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#108
post #12

How will they be keeping talent? I heard workers in IT are paid low compared to other jobs and especially compared to similar jobs in North America, what stops them. from just going to US/Canada?

Well for one, I and everyone I know happen to live here. I guess if someone can suffer the US' shitty conditions, I guess there's nothing stopping them from going there... except for the US's stringent immigration policies. Can't just hop over the pond to go work there, and I'm fairly sure it's easier for a US citizen to work here than the other way around. Of course, that too is deincentivized thanks to US tax laws…

This is a rude and ignorant statement.

First, you admit that "you and everyone you know" live in Europe. Perhaps consider not making sweeping generalizations about places that neither you nor anyone you know live.

Second, the many US States are far from perfect, as are the many EU member nations, but conditions in the US in general are hardly "shitty."

Other's have pointed out the extraordinary number of immigrants to the US -- there are more immigrants living in the US (40M) than citizens of Poland (38M)[1]. Those are normal people making intelligent, reasoned, self-interested decisions. They didn't leave their homes behind for a downgrade.

But more to the point, generalizing "conditions in the US" is utter foolishness. The US is very much like the EU v0. In the same way that my time living Italy didn't give me a great deal of insight into life in Belgium, a stay in New York City doesn't tell you very much about life in Idaho, or almost any other place in the US. The states are highly autonomous by design, and life experiences vary widely between them.

Yes, New York and San Francisco in particular are having a hard time due to acute housing crises, and some other cities are dealing with housing issues to a lesser extent. Yes, healthcare here is a problem if you don't have insurance.

But fortunately, the majority of the country is not SF or NY, and 92% of people have health insurance[2].

1: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/08/20/key-finding... 2: https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2020/demo/p60-27...

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#109
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, as a European, the past two decades were maddening. Europe had no vision concerning strategic industrial assets. Advanced steel production was sold to India. Key assets in the energy sector were pillaged by GE. The UK sold a leader in chip design to Japan and despite having ASML being at the forefront of photolithography there still is no credible fab in the EU. The pandemic really highlighted some major shortco…

Can you elaborate on "UK's sabotages"?

But certainly, the UK has been against any kind of concerted efforts by the EU which might go further than the single market for as long as they were a member. They lobbied heavily to be left out of the common agricultural policy and tried to diminish as much as they coud, were against Maastricht and were not a member of the Eurozone, pushed heavily for enlargement ensuring they would be no political cohesion in the union. Leon Brittan as a trade commissioner was a staunch opponent to any kind of state aid in the 90s and single handly significantly weakened the European industry.

Don't get me wrong, I like England. Great country, nice culture, shit partner. As far as I am concerned, Brexit is probably the best thing to ever happen to the EU.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#110
post #18
post #12

How will they be keeping talent? I heard workers in IT are paid low compared to other jobs and especially compared to similar jobs in North America, what stops them. from just going to US/Canada?

>what stops them. from just going to US/Canada? As an European working in a sector very close to the semiconductor industry my main reason is that I don't want to live in the US/Canada.

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