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CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

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Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#321

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

mrweasel wrote: post #174
posix_me_less wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because CentOS was once an independent project and Redhat promissed to keep Centos 8 alive till 2029. Security patches are not backports, they are security patches that obviously should be for free, Redhat is making loads of money off free software already.

Something like RHEL 6 is running on a 2.6 Linux kernel, all security patches has to be backported. That is an EOL kernel. Almost all versions of the software bundled with RHEL 6 have been EOL from upstream providers during it's ten year lifetime. Of cause you're free to try to attempt to applied any patches yourself, you don't have to pay. If RedHat promised to keep CentOS 8 around for 9 more years, then yes, that is…

I mean, yes? Backporting fixes and security patches is the entire point of RHEL/CentOS/OEL. And indeed it's upsetting precisely because CentOS was supposed to be supported into 2029 - https://web.archive.org/web/20201101131417/https://wiki.cent...

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#322

Post by kcb »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #312
bluedino wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Imagine if you were running a business, and deployed CentOS 8 Sadly, the danger of running on free software. Even more sadly, this puts a bad taste in peoples mouths, making them hesitant to start new projects on free software.

... as opposed to paid/proprietary software, that never breaks compatibility, hikes prices, or screws over their customers?

At least they don't advertise a support period then cut it 8 years short.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#323

Post by cwyers »

Tsiklon wrote: post #213

I used to work for a hosting firm who had large numbers of customers making use of CentOS for their pre-production environments, running RHEL for their production. This announcement is a kick in the teeth to those customers, as the transition to RHEL 8 for these pre-production environments will feel very much like a shakedown. I feel this is tremendously damaging for Red Hat's reputation and the goodwill developers h…

Red Hat has developer licenses. It might not end up being a shakedown, depending.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#324

Post by vetinari »

mmcgrath1 wrote: post #228
jmnicolas wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes this hurts. My use case is specific: I'm a dev but since we're 2 in the IT service with barely any budget I'm also a (modest) sysadmin and they also call me when the printer or the TV doesn't work. So a few years ago when Debian decided to have faster release cycles I migrated all my VM to CentOS: once the OS is installed I don't want to think about it for the next 10 years. I still didn't finish my Windows 7 to…

Before giving up on us just yet, I'd encourage you to check out our developer program for proper RHEL that's free. And I'd stay tuned for announcements that are coming in the first half of 2021 (as mentioned in our FAQ). You might find we've got a program for you: https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/faq-centos-stream-updates#Q10

T&C for your developer program doesn't allow for running it in production; which is exactly what many CentOS users do.

No, they won't migrate to paid RHEL. This is massive goodwill burn for RH.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#325

Post by Thaxll »

lars_francke wrote: post #308
Thaxll wrote: post #304

Just move to Ubuntu / Debian it's the logical choice here. Ubuntu is already the #1 distro on server, it will consolidate that poistion even more.

Can you back that number up? In my corner of the world Ubuntu plays no role at all on servers. It's all CentOS/RHEL here.

Ubuntu is by far the most used Linux distro on server, the problem with CentOS / RHEL is they did not support recent kernel for a long time, so you see very few cloud servers with those distro, especially since Docker / Kubernetes took off. Also RHEL is not free so there is no way it's "popular" outside of very enterprise needs ( HPC ect ... ).

At previous work they moved away from CentOS to use Ubuntu because libc was just to old, actually everything was old.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#326

Post by kcb »

1_player wrote: post #283
tomnipotent wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that a non-trivial number of contributions to Linux come from professional developers working at companies like Google, IBM, and RH?

Agreed, a significant part of Linux's graphical stack (GNOME, mesa, pipewire, etc.) is maintained by people whose email end in @redhat.com

For now. As with all acquisitions it's only a matter of when.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#327

Post by abalashov »

When I got started in business in the late 2000s, I was constantly fighting for Debian vs. CentOS, and eventually was forced to concede -- 95% of my customers wanted to run CentOS, all the more so given the exceptional conservatism of the telecom industry. They were attracted to its promise of long-term support and longevity, and, perhaps more vitally, it's what all the other organisations who sought an "enterprise-friendly" distribution were running.

Over time, much of my tooling and deployment processes has come to presume CentOS. If the customer base overwhelmingly runs CentOS, you build process for CentOS.

Thankfully, though, Systemd--for all its faults--has narrowed the painful deltas between Linux distributions enough that a switch back to a Debian target won't be too painful.

Where's your God now, "CentOS is something we can depend on, it's not just a rag-tag band of open-source hippies"?

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#328

Post by unethical_ban »

nemetroid wrote: post #316
Thaxll wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutly not, it's going to be the Fedora version of RHEL. Pretty clear: "If you are using CentOS Linux 8 in a production environment, and are concerned that CentOS Stream will not meet your needs, we encourage you to contact Red Hat about options." Of course no one want to run CentOS Stream because it's going to be broken / unstable, completely the opposite of what CentOS is.

Fedora is the Fedora version of RHEL. Are you saying that CentOS Stream is going to be directly equivalent to Fedora?

That's what it sounds. Maybe Fedora/CentOS/RHEL :: Dev/Test/Prod

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#329

Post by nix23 »

cozzyd wrote: post #100
nix23 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh true what happens with Cern now? Debian? FreeBSD ;)

There is a long legacy of EL integration and know-how in various particle physics experiments (and research computing clusters, for that matter...). If RH doesn't release some "Academic Version" (but who would even trust that at this point?), then I suspect revival of Scientific Linux or adoption of shudders Oracle Linux is more likely than a switch to Debian. FreeBSD is probably a non-starter.

>long legacy of EL integration and know-how in various particle physics experiments

That has nothing todo with a Distribution, maybe with linux but Redhat...pff....Looong-LTS that was the plus.

Oracle Linux...no one and especially cern would ever risk that.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#330

Post by awill »

mmcgrath1 wrote: post #228
jmnicolas wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes this hurts. My use case is specific: I'm a dev but since we're 2 in the IT service with barely any budget I'm also a (modest) sysadmin and they also call me when the printer or the TV doesn't work. So a few years ago when Debian decided to have faster release cycles I migrated all my VM to CentOS: once the OS is installed I don't want to think about it for the next 10 years. I still didn't finish my Windows 7 to…

Before giving up on us just yet, I'd encourage you to check out our developer program for proper RHEL that's free. And I'd stay tuned for announcements that are coming in the first half of 2021 (as mentioned in our FAQ). You might find we've got a program for you: https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/faq-centos-stream-updates#Q10

If there truly is a free RHEL release for certain use cases being announced in H1 2021, there's absolutely no excuse not to announce it now. You've terrified a LOT of people. Giving a 'well maybe next year we'll announce a solution' is not a response.

You've burned people. Don't expect to then sell them Aloe Vera.

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