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CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

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Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#91

Post by mattdm »

kklimonda wrote: post #42
thinkmassive wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it was literally the most straightforward Linux distro: RHEL without the license & trademarked material I've been leaning on Debian-based distros for my own servers for a while now, but I still use CentOS in the lab. Hopefully RedHat provides an easy way to legally develop on RHEL without messing with a license.

RedHat provides developer subscriptions to their products: https://developers.redhat.com/articles/getting-red-hat-devel...

And this will be expanding to cover more use cases. See https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/faq-centos-stream-updates#Q10:

_In the first half of 2021, we will be introducing low- or no-cost programs for a variety of use cases, including options for open source projects and communities, partner ecosystems and an expansion of the use cases of the Red Hat Enterprise Linux Developer subscription to better serve the needs of systems administrators and partner developers._

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#92

Post by Twirrim »

pmlnr wrote: post #82
Twirrim wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's essentially no different from how things currently are. RedHat releases updates, CentOS group picks those up and builds CentOS packages from them. They usually lag a day or two. They really lagged on the PLATYPUS CPU vulnerability for CentOS 7, because they were dealing with a backlog from the 7.9 bump. Took them several days to get the patches out.

Not true, because the current CO is not a rolling update. RHEL security fixes for version X.Y may or may not fix security issues for version Z.A on CO, if the are not in sync.

> Not true, because the current CO is not a rolling update.

I'm not sure where I claimed it was?

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#93

Post by mrweasel »

Veen wrote: post #77

> If you are using CentOS Linux 8 in a production environment, and are concerned that CentOS Stream will not meet your needs, we encourage you to contact Red Hat about options. Not exactly unexpected, but disappointing: if you want to continue using something like CentOS, pay for RHEL. Lots of web hosting providers will be quite concerned.

Why exactly is that disappointing? Isn't it more disappointing that some companies expect to be able to run the same OS for 13 years and get security patches backported for free?

I don't think this will hurt RedHat at all. How many RHEL customers are actually generated as a result of providing CentOS for free? Not many I suspect.

Those who want to learn about RHEL can still get Fedora, or CentOS Stream, or a RedHat developer license.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#94

Post by mattdm »

kcb wrote: post #54
Iolaum wrote: post #39

I m torn about this move. My gut reaction was that this was a bean-counter move. Thinking more about it the key issues I see with this move are: - CENTOS fills a need, that many users have and superficially it looks like Red Hat (IBM) is now abandoning addressing it. On the other hand Red Hat does offer RHEL for free (gratis) [0] and that should fill the needs of CENTOS users (right?). However it would have been much…

The free developer license seems pretty useless for larger organizations and OS licenses aren't managed by developers in general anyway. > Yes, but only one no-cost Red Hat Developer Subscription can be added to a user account. While it is possible to have each developer register for their own account, this is not ideal from a management or efficiency standpoint. For example, if a company wanted no-cost Red Hat Devel…

Stay tuned.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#95

Post by happyjack »

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #64
happyjack wrote: post #51

Wow. I kind of new this day was coming. I work in engineering / science (not comp. sci or developing) and all our software vendors are Windows or RHEL support only. Although if you know your way around linux any flavor will do, but RHEL is the "standard" for support. It's kind of like "insurance." We expect this to compile / work for RHEL and NOTHING else, because RHEL is stable, predictable, and boring. I've run mos…

> I could see this coming. CentOS didn't really show a value proposition for RH picking up the tab and supporting it. CentOS was recompiling RHEL and shipping it off; RH needs to keep their PR and image inline and HAD to help, since the whole point of CentOS was "this is RHEL without RH graphics and copyrighted material." Bear in mind that CentOS was originally an independent project until Red Hat acquired it.

You are correct! I think my point is that when your independent project grows so large that is has effect on the other, the main operator (RH) has to acknowledge it and do something about ti.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#96

Post by mattdm »

FeistySkink wrote: post #45

Oh, wow. My whole extended family has CentOS on their machines for years because of LTS. Not sure what I'm going to replace it with now and how. Perhaps there's going to be Fedora LTS at some point soon. I sure hope Fedora is not the next casualty. IBM strikes again.

I'm a little confused by this. Well, first, I'd encourage you to try Fedora Workstation for your family -- we've worked on making upgrades painless, so that they're basically an automated thing that happens while you go for coffee once or twice a year (at your option). But second, if a "Fedora LTS" would fit your needs, why not give CentOS Stream a look? It's not actually going to be that different from CentOS Linux, and almost certainly will have less constant change than a theoretical Fedora LTS would.

Also, I am not one of the highest upptity-ups in the company or anything, but from the inside: I see no evidence whatsoever that this is the result of IBM anything.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#97

Post by mattdm »

charlesdaniels wrote: post #28

Having been a Debian/Ubuntu person for a long time, and being somewhat dissatisfied with that ecosystem, I recently started evaluating CentOS for my use cases instead. I want something with a non-rolling update model, so I don't have to deal with my environment changing out from under me. CentOS 8 had been mostly working well for me, barring a few missing packages that were easy to port over myself, and I was really…

I think there might be some confusion about "rolling" in the context of CentOS Stream. The updates are continuous and there's not released minor versions, but all changes are changes that are intended to _very shortly_ land in the next every-six-months minor release of RHEL. So you aren't going to suddenly see more "environment changing out from under me" than you would on RHEL or CentOS Linux.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#98

Post by FeistySkink »

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #66
FeistySkink wrote: post #45

Oh, wow. My whole extended family has CentOS on their machines for years because of LTS. Not sure what I'm going to replace it with now and how. Perhaps there's going to be Fedora LTS at some point soon. I sure hope Fedora is not the next casualty. IBM strikes again.

Your whole family runs CentOS as their desktop operating system?

Extended yes. And has been for years without a single issue. Immediate family all on Fedora. Very little maintenance, automated updates. Desktop software installed through flatpaks. Easy remote management. Users don't care about the OS as long as they know how to open the browser, email, word processor, Skype, Zoom, etc.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#100

Post by cozzyd »

nix23 wrote: post #72
cozzyd wrote: post #67

Thanks IBM. Now I'll have to revisit what OS to deploy at various remote experiments. I suppose this might be the kick needed to revive SL though. They also conveniently waited until right after EL6 EOL...

Oh true what happens with Cern now? Debian? FreeBSD ;)

There is a long legacy of EL integration and know-how in various particle physics experiments (and research computing clusters, for that matter...).

If RH doesn't release some "Academic Version" (but who would even trust that at this point?), then I suspect revival of Scientific Linux or adoption of shudders Oracle Linux is more likely than a switch to Debian. FreeBSD is probably a non-starter.

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