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Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

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Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#951

Post by cltby »

rconti wrote: post #927
cltby wrote: post #778

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My comment is a reply to this: "To blast the Bay Area and state which made them rich and then flee before they owe a penny is gross." It's not gross to minimize your obligations towards people who have done nothing for you. Seattle is the relevant counterfactual: flourishing tech scene without the punitive tax burden that we're supposed to believe enabled California's success.

Your comment is dripping with opinion and utterly devoid of any attempt at supporting evidence. I've lived both places. Seattle is not a low-tax paradise, nor are tax dollars completely and utterly squandered in California. It is gross how, the more money one makes, the more entitled one feels to not have to give a dime back. It's a game to them.

> Seattle is not a low-tax paradise

Excepting special situations for certain PR and USVI residents, Washington state is as close to a tax haven as a US citizen is going to find.

> nor are tax dollars completely and utterly squandered in California

This depends on what you think the dollars should be used for. Most taxpayers would like to see their taxes used for provision of public services, and not in service of a vast public employee enrichment scheme. From this POV, the money is in fact squandered.

> It is gross how, the more money one makes, the more entitled one feels to not have to give a dime back

It's less about greed and more about abuse of generosity. See prior point.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#952

Post by ulfw »

hollerith wrote: post #275
ulfw wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially on the coast. 100% agree. I've had months and months of continuous rain in the Bay, something I never witnessed when living down South. It's cheaper too. Much much much MUCH more diverse. And food's better as is the landscape.

Sure, but So Cal has higher levels of air pollution, and never enduring cold weather is probably not good for your health in the long term.

People used to travel. In the old days. Before Covid.

Never did I say one should move to LA and never ever leave town. One can go skiing (nearby even!) or enjoy any kind of weather elsewhere.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#953

Post by ryandrake »

Cookingboy wrote: post #871
seattle_spring wrote: post #853

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Several hundred thousand state taxes in one year? That means you made at least 2.5m. What exactly are you complaining about?

>What exactly are you complaining about? I don't have an English degree or anything, but I'm pretty sure he's complaining about the several hundred thousands in state taxes.

I think the point is: We would all likely gladly trade our current salaries for a salary that incurred "several hundred thousands" in state taxes. If I was paying that much in taxes, that would mean I was a multi-millionaire, and I would pay those taxes with a huge smile on my face and then enjoy my vacation in Fiji, without any resentment whatsoever.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#954

Post by vacheron »

habosa wrote: post #689

In the last 10-15 years San Francisco gained a ton of residents that didn't want to be there at all. They moved there because the job opportunities in tech were too hard to turn down. I had some friends like this, they just never really liked the city. Now they're all leaving because their job is not making them stay. That's fine and I'm happy they have more choices now. But there's a flip side to that. One of my lea…

> They weren't willing to give the city a chance and instead always wanted to change it to be more bland or more like somewhere else.

I've found this statement to be the complete opposite for myself and many SFBA migrants. I came to the SFBA without too many expectations, but found the city to be an extremely boring place. If you're young and single, the night life is depressing. Hiking and outdoorsy activities are good, but many other cities do it better. SF is the only place where anything actually happens, and the surrounding Bay Area just seems completely devoid of life.

This isn't even to mention the homelessness problems within the city. I haven't seen the situation improve at all over the past 5+ years despite effectively paying half of my gross income to taxes. If you complain about it, people will just tell you to "donate money then bub" as if the tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars we pay to the state every year isn't expected to make a difference.

I gave SF a chance. Been everywhere worth going, done most major hikes, even expanded my interests and hobbies. I've lived in over 6 US cities now (and a few Canadian and European cities) and SF is both the least interesting and the least comfortable to live in.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#955

Post by dang »

scottlocklin wrote: post #661
dragonwriter wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You obviously don't live in California, Only for a little over 4 decades. > don't make enough money to pay taxes, Yeah, let's just say my household income is in the top 10% in the state, so no. > or are just being cussed. If by “being cussed” you mean “understand the difference between total tax rates and top end marginal income tax rates in a progressive tax system”, then, yes it must be this one. If not, you've m…

Go look at the title: do you think your household income qualifies as "tech elites?" The rest of it: I'll let you have the fact that the VAT in California is called "sales tax" -it's the highest in the US, FWIIW. And you evidently are incapable of addition and subtraction, so discussing the rest of it is irrelevant. Which is pretty much why I want you to stay there. Too many like you. Stay there and enjoy your utopia…

Oof! Please don't post to HN like you did in this thread. Most of your comments are great but we just can't have this kind of thing here—we're trying against the odds to have HN hover a little above internet median and this kind of thing just sinks us. It isn't only the damage the specific posts cause—it's what it invites from others. I recently wrote a longer explanation of why we moderate this way, if anyone cares: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25130956

There are other HN users with fire-breathing powers and formidable writing skills whom we eventually persuaded not to post in the enemy-incinerating style here. The argument boils down to trying to have a site that remains at least moderately interesting. There exist communities in which members kick the shit out of each other (or let's be nice, out of opposing arguments) and are higher-quality for it. I like to compare this to rugby teams who beat each other up and then go out drinking together: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor....

HN can't work this way because it's much too big and incohesive—the average quality of contribution is much lower, and there are no relational ties to mitigate the downside. If people start posting in that style here, a copycat stampede will result, only without any insight or wit. We'll end up with mass battles on scorched earth, which is interesting to none of the users that we actually want to have here. Trying to stave off that fate for as long as possible is actually the founding idea behind HN:

https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html, https://news.ycombinator.com/hackernews.html

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#957

Post by joshuamorton »

tekknik wrote: post #945
joshuamorton wrote: post #884

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhm, there's some of the most diverse produce farmland in the country close to the bay. You get a much wider variety of farm-fresh bproduce there then in much of the rural south, for example (and yes I've lived in both).

Yet you’ll notice they’re not on the top of the list, therefore my statement stands: https://www.statista.com/statistics/196114/top-10-us-states-...

"Pretty much anywhere other than SF can have fresher food." Says nothing about being limited to the 7 states with more farms than California (to say nothing of the different crops that are grown on these farms: Iowa grows almost entirely corn and grains, so your fresh produce is going to be limited, or you'll be getting things from smaller boutique farms, which you'll find in all states and so produce depends mostly on climate).

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#958

Post by bosswipe »

bart_spoon wrote: post #939
bosswipe wrote: post #745

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I said something bad about "red necks" or other such subcultures people would get angry and indignant. But somehow it's become OK to make disparaging comments like that about San Franciscans.

As someone living in the Midwest, I assure you that we do get slandered far more often than San Franciscans and no one bats an eye.

Huh, I don't think I've ever heard any bad midwestern stereotypes.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#959

Post by Jommi »

whynotminot wrote: post #825
Jommi wrote: post #819

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SF is walkable because its tiny, yet each area feels very different because of the elevation changing your scenery in every nook. Ive been walking around the city for the past months now daily, and have not once encountered something unpleasant, unsafe, or smelly. Now of course I avoid the tenderloin etc. area, but thats how its designed currently. All the homeless are in one place.

Look I love San Francisco, but you might want to take a COVID test if you really think the city doesn't smell.

Funny joke, but doesnt defeat my real experience off not smelling anything. What areas are you talking about?

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#960

Post by elindbe2 »

imposterr wrote: post #757
annexrichmond wrote: post #747

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I don't get it when people say SF is "walkable". No, Toronto is walkable. It's flat, dense, everything is close by, and clean. I'd be content to walk 45-50 mins to get somewhere. In SF, I dread having to walk, bike or take public transit anywhere. It's unpleasant, unsafe, smells horrible and there's rampant petty crime. And not just one district, it's like that in most of the areas you need to go to

But it cold in Toronto!

But clothing
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