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Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

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Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#681

Post by ambivalents »

ahhname wrote: post #674
rpearl wrote: post #555

Nobody really brings up that the bay area is one of few places in the US where you can live without a car. Really, even compared to other "walkable" cities beyond a select few, similarly expensive places. Nobody really brings up that the bay area has better LGBT and other minority protections than anywhere in the US, either. Every time someone mentions cheap midwest cities I have to pull up https://crossingenres.com/…

As a LGBT member in a red state (Florida), the idea that California's protections or perceptions of LGBT people are unique is just absurd. I'm in my early 20's and have never faced any discrimination that would warrant an interaction with the police. Amongst my friends, the police have always been extremely helpful. The only divide that exists is between cities and rural areas. Virtually every city is going to have a…

There's a difference between mere acceptance (legal and social), and ability to flourish, no? And banning conversion therapy, that seems like a super low bar for LGBT friendliness. I am merely tolerated where I currently live, but when I was in the SFBA I had a whole community, recurring events, and there was much more visiblity to LGBT people than there is where I am now.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#682

Post by bigyikes »

justinzollars wrote: post #65
bigyikes wrote: post #13

As it happens, tomorrow I’m putting in my 30-day notice to terminate my lease and leave the Bay. (And I’m paying 2 additional months rent in fees to do so) Not being tied to the office fundamentally changes the calculus of choosing where to live. There just aren’t good reasons to live here anymore for so many of us. Even if you enjoy the area, chances are you can get a better deal by moving just a bit further away. A…

Where are you going?

ATX, baby!

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#683

Post by tannhauser23 »

hbosch wrote: post #625
rpearl wrote: post #555

Nobody really brings up that the bay area is one of few places in the US where you can live without a car. Really, even compared to other "walkable" cities beyond a select few, similarly expensive places. Nobody really brings up that the bay area has better LGBT and other minority protections than anywhere in the US, either. Every time someone mentions cheap midwest cities I have to pull up https://crossingenres.com/…

I had a whole long thing typed out. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt instead, and assume you didn't mean to generalize suburbs and exurbs as racist and homophobic, artless, desolate and uncivilized places. I live in a quaint little town by the water, a decent drive away from a major city. I'm a tech worker that chose to move, because city perks didn't outweigh the city stress. I would say that for anyone consid…

People who write stuff like the OP have never actually been to other parts of the country. Good! Let 'em stay in SF.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#684

Post by tannhauser23 »

munificent wrote: post #653
jmalicki wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The primary point is easy access to nature from a metro area. Other than easy access to nature, all of those points are true for major metro areas. But other than say, Salt Lake City, does any other metro area offer such close access to nature? Boston and Seattle are even much farther away...

I live in Seattle (south end of Ballard). I can jog to Discovery Park and be in forest surrounded by beach, or up to Carkeek and see tide pools and wetlands. I can be on a real hiking trailhead in less than an hour. Camelback Mountain is half an hour from the center of Phoenix. Virginia Key Beach Park's walking trails are 20 minutes from downtown Miami. Lionel Hampton-Beecher Hills Park is about the same distance fro…

Seriously. The idea that Seattle is somehow _far_ from nature can only be held by someone who never visited here. Or looked at a map.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#685

Post by ketamine__ »

busterarm wrote: post #660
skrtskrt wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chicago is pretty segregated, but the transit situation is easily the best of any major US city. A car helps you get places quicker, but an adventurous person can get all over the city easily on the buses and trains and any given neighborhood is very walkable. The main issue is the cold. You have 3 months of amazing summer and 8 months of cold with two weeks of spring and fall on either end. If you're not from the Mi…

Cold is fine. Getting robbed at gunpoint isn't. That's the real Chicago you have to contend with.

Never happened to me or my friends. And apparently there's less poop on the sidewalks than SF.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#686

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

jeffreyrogers wrote: post #357
gonehome wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything specific? One guess I'd have is that an influx of new people creates that anti-housing response anywhere which can lead to some of the same problems. I suspect that's less about CA policy and more about bad incentives around housing being an investment in the US. If you mean that most people from CA don't like Trump (or the Republican support/defense of him), then yeah I think you're probably right about tha…

I wasn't thinking about Trump at all. I don't think he (or any President) is very relevant at a local level, at least not on a short time-frame. The influx of people probably has something to do with it, although in Utah (where I live) there is not much anti-housing response. There is lots of construction going on both in Salt Lake City and in the surrounding areas, and lots of political support for it. The real prob…

> The idea that they can just start changing things without understanding how/why things were the way they were before.

Not exactly a novel proposition. The Europeans who arrived in what is now New England, or the Caribbean or yes, even Utah, felt much the same and acted like it too.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#687

Post by giantrobot »

ummonk wrote: post #459
baron_harkonnen wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having had a fairly long tech career working in small, non-SF cities, even getting paid 70-80% of a Bay area salary, I can tell you that this allows you to live very, very well. Bay area salaries are much larger than most other jobs (tech or not) in small cities. I recall local tech companies offering 1/2 to 1/3 of what you would get paid for average (non-FAANG) work in the Bay. In most smaller cities in the US > $10…

Depends on how much you value housing size / quality. You can't get a big house in the Bay Area but if you opt for something smaller you get a lot more disposable income to spend on other luxuries.

Uh...not really. Tiny piece of shit houses built in the 60s still go for a million plus in much of the SFBA. The problem is there's a real housing shortage so there's untenable minimum prices for houses.

At a million dollars you need a fairly large household income to afford luxuries beyond your house. Even putting down 25% on the house with a good 30 year fixed rate loan you'd be looking at just under $4k a month for your mortgage. After utilities you're easily over $4k a month. If you scrimped you could maybe keep your other household costs under $500 a month (realistically you're looking at $1k). So you're looking at a take-home of $4.5-5k to just stay afloat.

That's all for a shitty house that needs work, doesn't have great insulation, and doesn't have a lot of usable space. If you're 30 when you buy they place you only have to keep that income until you're 60 or hope that you build a ton of equity in the meantime and cash out.

That's the minimum for most of the SFBA. There's plenty of places with even more outrageous prices for shitty houses. To buy a house for not completely outrageous prices you need to go pretty far afield with hour plus commutes.

Treating yourself to ramen once a week is not a luxury.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#688

Post by rpearl »

ng12 wrote: post #677
spamizbad wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chicago and NYC do car-free better than the Bay Area, where not owning a car is really only viable in SF and a few small surrounding communities.

And Boston and DC. I wouldn't live in SF without a car unless I was a biking enthusiast. Also I find that many people who proudly refuse to own a car in SF just end up ubering everywhere.

To be clear I (the original poster in this thread) have lived without a car in the bay area for almost a decade, and I don't Uber anywhere.

NYC is definitely more walkable--and just as expensive. Boston is about as walkable, I think (I haven't spent much time there)--and also pretty expensive!

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#689

Post by habosa »

In the last 10-15 years San Francisco gained a ton of residents that didn't want to be there at all. They moved there because the job opportunities in tech were too hard to turn down.

I had some friends like this, they just never really liked the city. Now they're all leaving because their job is not making them stay. That's fine and I'm happy they have more choices now.

But there's a flip side to that. One of my least favorite part of San Francisco was actually that group of people! I loved SF and I was always bothered by the constant complaining by tech workers who were there semi-involuntarily. They weren't willing to give the city a chance and instead always wanted to change it to be more bland or more like somewhere else.

If a bunch of those people are now leaving and the rent is dropping a bit, all of a sudden I really want to come back. I also think the city will be easier to govern if more of the residents are there because it's where they actually want to live.

(Note: I was in SF for 6 years, left just before the pandemic for a temporary assignment in London)

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#690

Post by habosa »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #70

I'd love to hear from people who want to stay in the Bay area what is unique that you cannot find elsewhere in cheaper locales. I lived in Mountain View for 3 months during 500 startups and the valley proper was the most garden variety suburban existence you could find anywhere. I lived in SF proper off and on and can attest that it certainly has (had?) fantastic restaurants/shops and a particular type of culture tha…

Every city is special in its own way. Very few cities have anything truly irreplaceable, but it's a combination of small differences that make a city special.

My two favorite cities in the US are San Francisco and Philadelphia. Many people hate those places with a passion. To each their own!

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