Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy • Hacker News Board

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#331

Post by xiphias2 » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 7:02 PM UTC

medium_burrito wrote: post #72

xiphias2 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the things that would maybe help Switzerland is to make English an official language (there are already 4 langauges, supporting English wouldn't be that hard). For me dealing with Swiss laws to make a company would make things much harder than for people who speak German well.

You have 4 different official languages to choose from; surely it cannot be that hard to learn one of them for even the most meanly educated tech worker?

I tried to learn Swiss German, but gave up quite fast, it's just not my style. Also even people who came from Germany said that it's hard for them, and Swiss people never really take them in their social circle, that took away all my motivation. I could do everything in English though except the tax returns, it just didn't feel like home to me, so like many others I came away.

Good luck fitting in for you when you get there!

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#332

Post by scelerat » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 7:02 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #89

bigyikes wrote: post #13

As it happens, tomorrow I’m putting in my 30-day notice to terminate my lease and leave the Bay. (And I’m paying 2 additional months rent in fees to do so) Not being tied to the office fundamentally changes the calculus of choosing where to live. There just aren’t good reasons to live here anymore for so many of us. Even if you enjoy the area, chances are you can get a better deal by moving just a bit further away. A…

>> and still come out ahead financially. Ya. Earning a SF wage but living elsewhere is great. But there is a flip side to this coin. As employees realize they can work from home, employers also realize they can have employees work from home. They will soon realize they don't need to pay SF wages. Those who convert their in-office jobs into work-from-home are a covid oddity. Those who will be hired in the future on th…

The SF-based company I work for has already announced wage adjustments for employees who relocate out of the region. They haven't happened yet, but the company has given everyone a "heads up; it's on the table."

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#333

Post by eeZah7Ux » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 7:02 PM UTC

throwdour wrote: post #138

shuckles wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rich people don't want to live in your 100 year old apartment with 50 year old finishes. Unfortunately, in San Francisco, they don't have any other choice.

That, I agree with. San Francisco should have built more housing to accommodate the growth. Though if people are leaving already, I can also see why developers might have been reluctant to bet too big on new construction.

> I can also see why developers might have been reluctant to bet too big on new construction

Why would that be?

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#334

Post by iso1631 » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 7:03 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #259

throwaway45349 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Increase taxes on the wealthy, etc. Anyone working for a Silicon Valley company as an engineer is almost certainly considered "the wealthy" by most of America.

>> Anyone working for a Silicon Valley Depending on your definition of wealthy, "anyone working" full stop. A large number of americans do not work (too young/old etc). Others are sick. Many at the top of society don't earn much income (tax voodoo). And automation is coming. If we define "wealthy" as the top 25/15/10% of wage earners, how soon before that is basically just anyone with a fulltime job?

Wealthy is about how much wealth you have, not your income.

In 2020, $121,411 was the median household net worth in the United States. This is up from $97,225.55 in 2017.

The average household net worth in 2020 was $746,821. It was $692,100 in 2017.

The disparity between these two numbers is itself a major problem, but not the point. If you have a net work of $120k you aren't wealthy, even if you earnt that all in the last month.

The way you get from having no wealth to having an average amount is by working harder and earning more. However the tax system is built to punish people who earn more money from work, and reward people who gain more wealth through things like capital gains -- you pay more tax if you increase your wealth by a dollar from working than from the side-effect of being already wealthy and seeing your assets gain value. You're also far more likely to have higher outgoings if you're working (higher cost to live near a high paying job, commuting costs etc)

If you are on the median ohio wage on 37k a year, so $30,427.47 net, and spending 37k to live, your wealth doesn't increase.

If you work an extra 1k, you take home $31,202.47 -- $775, 22.5% tax.

If you make 1k in capital gains, you keep $971, 3% tax.

Look at twice median wage of 74k a year. Take home 57,439.49. Extra $1k will give you 58,109.69, an extra $670 - 33% tax.

Make 1k in capital gains and you pay 18% tax.

Earn 10 times the median wage at $370k and you keep 239,713.20, 42% tax.

Get 1k in capital gains and you keep $764, 24% tax.

https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-net-worth-percentiles/

https://www.thebalance.com/breakdown-of-average-monthly-hous...

https://goodcalculators.com/us-salary-tax-calculator/ohio/

https://smartasset.com/investing/capital-gains-tax-calculato...

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#335

Post by xivzgrev » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 7:03 PM UTC

Blah blah blah. There are still a lot of people and companies based in Silicon Valley. If anything Silicon Valley will die a slow death, and that won’t be clear until after the covid dust settles. For now people are still paying absurd amounts for homes so no lack of people wanting to live there (yet)

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#336

Post by throwaway0a5e » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 7:04 PM UTC

jeffreyrogers wrote: post #223

gonehome wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony is it's the 'fuck off we're full' people that have made CA policy shitty. It's the NIMBY anti-change response to policy. The people that want a strong economy, incentivize building housing, and adapting lead to positive non-zero-sum outcomes. The people that say "fuck off we're full" block any policy and create perverse incentives that create a dysfunctional mess. This is ignoring the selection bias that th…

My experience living in an area that has high net migration from California is that the people leaving bring California's policies with them.

It's not just a california problem. Upper middle class suburbanites do this (with the best of intentions) everywhere they go. For every coffee shop their money keeps afloat there's two local businesses getting screwed by new local ordinances.

Sure everyone's land is worth more (as if selling the home you own or the land your business is on is actually an option when you can't readily replace either) but at the end of the day but everything winds up inflated and your standard of living flat-lines or decreases despite the increased stress.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#337

Post by ves » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 7:04 PM UTC

setpatchaddress wrote: post #302

pvarangot wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think SVs appeal is that you can leave in a quiet suburb close to a lot of easily accessible nature, while still having Amazon 2-day shipping, ridesharing, Uber Eats, and luxury retail. There's not many places in the US like this. Europe has a lot but there's not much tech jobs in them. You are also close to SF if you like the madness of the city every once in a while. Other suburby places with nature easily access…

The Bay Area isn't especially nice in this regard, for one reason:it is crowded . you won't ever get a moment of peace in all of that nature unless you get lucky. For variety, I actually think the LA area as a whole is better. But it has the same problem.

There’s plenty of quiet, uncrowded nature in the Bay Area if you spend some time exploring off the beaten path. I live in SF and don’t have a car and have still spent hours at a stretch in parks totally alone, not to mention when I do get out of the city.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#338

Post by aaronblohowiak » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 7:06 PM UTC

woofie11 wrote: post #167

gumby wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on: there’s a beautiful A/B test you can consult: in the 50s, 60s, and 70s, Boston’s route 128 was the “Silicon Valley” of its time. The US poured even more money into it than they did the Bay Area. Yet which grew and which stagnated?

I think THE major difference was enforcement of noncompetes (as well as those as a proxy for a slew of similar regulatory differences). Financial resources went to route 128 because of a more corporate-friendly regulatory climate. Innovation came from Silicon Valley because of a more innovation-friendly regulatory climate. Guess which won out? US reached economic supremacy in part due to a weaker IP scheme than Europ…

>Boston is doing better for big business, like biotech

There is also a LOT of biotech in sfbay, but it is still in the shadow of internet tech, for various reasons (PhD is minimum cost of entry, longer development times, etc)

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#339

Post by jmalicki » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 7:06 PM UTC

munificent wrote: post #221

pvarangot wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think SVs appeal is that you can leave in a quiet suburb close to a lot of easily accessible nature, while still having Amazon 2-day shipping, ridesharing, Uber Eats, and luxury retail. There's not many places in the US like this. Europe has a lot but there's not much tech jobs in them. You are also close to SF if you like the madness of the city every once in a while. Other suburby places with nature easily access…

> a quiet suburb close to a lot of easily accessible nature, while still having Amazon 2-day shipping, ridesharing, Uber Eats, and luxury retail. Maybe I'm missing, but I don't see anything in that list that isn't true of almost every metro area in the US. I think people living in SF notice when new services come out that are only available there, like Uber was at first. But they don't notice when those services late…

The primary point is easy access to nature from a metro area.

Other than easy access to nature, all of those points are true for major metro areas. But other than say, Salt Lake City, does any other metro area offer such close access to nature? Boston and Seattle are even much farther away...

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#340

Post by sfblah » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 7:07 PM UTC

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #70

I'd love to hear from people who want to stay in the Bay area what is unique that you cannot find elsewhere in cheaper locales. I lived in Mountain View for 3 months during 500 startups and the valley proper was the most garden variety suburban existence you could find anywhere. I lived in SF proper off and on and can attest that it certainly has (had?) fantastic restaurants/shops and a particular type of culture tha…

I live in the Oakland hills. The access to SF via Bart in 30 minutes and the access to completely open space to go running, hiking, biking, etc. is pretty unusual. Look up the EBMUD land east of Oakland for a reference. It's unbelievably large. This connection between nature and city is really unusual.