Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy • Hacker News Board

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#161

Post by nitrogen » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 6:06 PM UTC

renewiltord wrote: post #98

gedy wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

East Asian family in different parts of Texas are California expats and love it.

Yeah, it's not a universal thing¹ but the short version is that one of my friends was told how he was "one of the good guys" and not the kind of immigrant they hate. And another was in sales in industrial manufacturing and there was a lot of misogyny and low-grade racism there. They're in WA now so and much happier. ¹ the "isn't happening to me" thing is sort of analogous to "works on my machine". Because of the rang…

The immigration issue is more complex than that. I met a guy a long time ago who immigrated illegally, but eventually decided to go legit. He built a fortune in the shipping pallet business, and complained loudly about unfair competition from illegal immigration because those companies could pay sub-living wages and skip out on safety and workers' comp insurance.

It's fine to prefer living in one culture over another, which is exactly what both your friend and the people they complained about are doing.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#162

Post by kilbuz » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 6:06 PM UTC

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #106

kilbuz wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me (in SF): climate that matches what I want perfectly. The option for snow or beaches on the same day. The food, the diversity, the grittiness, the jobs, the history. And all my family lives here, too. The biggest one of all: walkability, never having to get in my car unless I want to leave the city. Where did you end up moving that you found a better fit for yourself?

Northern Virginia about an Hour from DC. The only two things you miss in VA on your list is "grittiness" which is a negative for me, and walkability, which you could get if you go closer to DC.

And the family, which is maybe the biggest draw for many of us.

The more I think about it, the more I realize the choice of where you live is barely rational, if at all. Sure we come up with reason about why we are where we are post hoc, but are those the real reasons?

I can almost guarantee I will never move to DC or Virginia. Not because it isn't an amazing place with everything you can want, but because it's just not me for some reason that's hard to articulate. I would guess you would almost guarantee you'd never move to CA, too.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#163

Post by shuckles » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 6:07 PM UTC

throwdour wrote: post #138

shuckles wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rich people don't want to live in your 100 year old apartment with 50 year old finishes. Unfortunately, in San Francisco, they don't have any other choice.

That, I agree with. San Francisco should have built more housing to accommodate the growth. Though if people are leaving already, I can also see why developers might have been reluctant to bet too big on new construction.

Developers were more than willing to bet on new construction, but it's mostly outlawed in the city.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#164

Post by ChuckNorris89 » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 6:07 PM UTC

jamesmehaffey wrote: post #144

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amsterdam is a pretty expensive city(for Europe, I know it's cheap compared to Sf but so is everything else out there). Wow are the median tech salaries there?

I suppose the salaries are somewhat comparable if perhaps a little lower, however the cost of living is much less in general compared to SF. The most important thing is that the beer is inexpensive, and the fact that you can spend every weekend in a different city for next to nothing more than makes up for the discrepancy.

I wasn't comparing Amsterdam to SF since nothin in Europe comes close to Bay Area, I was saying Amsterdam is expensive compared to most cities in Europe but when I look t wages I don't see anything special than cities in Europe with a lower CoL.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#165

Post by delaynomore » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 6:07 PM UTC

briga wrote: post #12

chrismckleroy wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Better weather” I can’t help but laugh. One of five Mediterranean climates worldwide, built on apricot orchards, formerly home to one of the most diverse animal and again ecosystems before the arrival of whites. It’s really hard to beat the weather in Silicon Valley. It’s almost non seasonal, anything grows. The diversity currently of this area is very high, it’s the home of top universities, between the two cross p…

I think California has created this myth that constant sunshine = perfect weather. I personally like things like summer thunderstorms, snowy winters, mild cloudy days, and rain. It's definitely not bad weather, but the lack of variety and endless dry smoggy summer months can get pretty old.

To each their own I guess. We'll gladly take the "boring" year-round spring over harsh winter (-30/40 windchill, hazardous winter driving, etc).

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#166

Post by harikb » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 6:08 PM UTC

etimberg wrote: post #121

birdyrooster wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’ve been trying to hire these people for ages locally and remotely and we still couldn’t find them so I have no idea where you think all the talent was hiding until covid 19.

A lot of people, myself included, have been quite hesitant to work remotely until now. I've been pleasantly surprised how well it's gone and would consider a remote position in the future but I think it'd have to be a fully remote team. When offices do return, being one of a few remote workers means you will likely be left out of a lot of teambuilding, conversations, etc.

This may be the biggest societal contribution from the pandemic, if and when we survive it

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#167

Post by woofie11 » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 6:08 PM UTC

gumby wrote: post #152

ylhert wrote: post #33

Tech in SFBA reminds me of the Resource curse ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse ). SFBA did nothing special to attract the wealth of technology companies, they effectively got lucky with Shockley/Fairchild/Traitorous 8 and the boom in technology that followed. It seems the local gov't have squandered an opportunity to truly capitalize on the gift they were given, and perhaps even done their best to jeopa…

Come on: there’s a beautiful A/B test you can consult: in the 50s, 60s, and 70s, Boston’s route 128 was the “Silicon Valley” of its time. The US poured even more money into it than they did the Bay Area. Yet which grew and which stagnated?

I think THE major difference was enforcement of noncompetes (as well as those as a proxy for a slew of similar regulatory differences).

Financial resources went to route 128 because of a more corporate-friendly regulatory climate. Innovation came from Silicon Valley because of a more innovation-friendly regulatory climate.

Guess which won out?

US reached economic supremacy in part due to a weaker IP scheme than Europe, and China is doing likewise right now. Innovation requires a mixture of economic rewards (which doesn't happen in the absence of any enforcement), and building off of the work of others (which doesn't happen with strict IP laws). Massachusetts went off of the deep end of more is better.

Coincidentally, Boston is doing better for big business, like biotech, in part because there, the balance falls in a different place. It's very tough to start a scrappy biotech, so the number of employee leaving to do a competing startup is pretty darned low in either case. The downsides of strong IP are smaller, and the upsides of weak IP are greater.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#168

Post by bigbubba » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 6:08 PM UTC

nomeddie wrote: post #51

briga wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think California has created this myth that constant sunshine = perfect weather. I personally like things like summer thunderstorms, snowy winters, mild cloudy days, and rain. It's definitely not bad weather, but the lack of variety and endless dry smoggy summer months can get pretty old.

Snowy winters is a nice idea when you can sip a warm drink cozied up inside and play winter sports. When you have to shovel the drive way twice a day and five minutes later the city snow plow throws half frozen slush on your drive way, you start to crave a warmer climate.

If you're shoveling twice a day, you should consider doing as they do in Alaska and simply stop shoveling it. Drive on the snow if it's snowing so much that you have to shovel twice a day.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#169

Post by dekhn » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 6:08 PM UTC

Cd00d wrote: post #114

dekhn wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is ridiculous. The Bay Area, specifically Stanford and Berkeley, contributed to the WWII tech research initiative and then afterwards, Terman made Stanford Research Park which led to Silicon Valley.

Yeah, I thought it was somewhat due to Stanford's handling of IP. The argument I heard was that if you're researching at Stanford and make a productizable discovery you can spin off a company no strings. I was at Cornell when I heard this, where any company built off on-campus research had to sign over 20% of the company up front. Makes those initial pitches to VC that much harder.

it was a lot more. they built an incubator called Stanford Research Park as a joint venture with Palo Alto. It gave access to students (key to any tech company, getting fresh students with new ideas and up to date knowledge), access to VC, and nice facilities for tech startups.

I don't know the exact terms of universities when it comes to founding companies but I don't see how the university can prevent you from founding a company, or demand a percentage.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#170

Post by ghaff » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 6:08 PM UTC

pvarangot wrote: post #97

ghaff wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot to like about many areas of California. Which ones may depend on your weather, cultural, etc. preferences. But Silicon Valley proper I find not particularly appealing; housing costs are only part of the reason. (SF itself has well-documented pluses and minuses.) I don't live or work in CA/SV. But if I were in SV but no longer needed to commute, I might well stay in CA but I'd probably move somewhere out…

I think SVs appeal is that you can leave in a quiet suburb close to a lot of easily accessible nature, while still having Amazon 2-day shipping, ridesharing, Uber Eats, and luxury retail. There's not many places in the US like this. Europe has a lot but there's not much tech jobs in them. You are also close to SF if you like the madness of the city every once in a while. Other suburby places with nature easily access…

A lot depends on what the nature you're looking to be accessible to looks like of course. (And I'll be the first to agree that the Bay Area is probably especially nice in this regard.) But I'd say you were describing any significant coastal city, areas of Colorado (can't speak to other mountain states although places like Boise I would think...), etc. If you're looking for a reasonably affluent suburb there really isn't a particular shortage of them around the country--and many have good outdoor recreation options.