Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

businessinsider.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

771–780 of 1001 posts

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#771

Post by babesh »

pjlegato wrote: post #601
tesseract wrote: post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are suburban "downtowns"/shopping districts near many BART and Caltrain stops where it's quite possible to commute and do most everyday errands on foot/bike/transit. Possibly even easier than a lot of the southwestern half of SF proper. (Having no access to a car at all - through friends or a willingness to use Lyft/Uber - does make some things harder). The older and higher-density suburbs tend to be better for…

The walkable parts of those cities is vanishingly small, on the order of a few square blocks. The tiny walkable segment is also super-expensive.

Berkeley's walkable area is actually pretty extensive. The others are less so.

Berkeley's walkable area encompasses all of Telegraph Avenue down to Ashby (Berkeley Bowl) (South), all of downtown (West), the perimeter of the UC Berkeley campus and the campus itself, and probably half way down University avenue (further West), the North Berkeley area to the north of downtown Berkeley (Chez Panisse, etc...) (North). If you like walking, you can walk from campus all the way to the Bay. If you like hiking, you can hike up part of the way to the LBL. San Pablo Ave is also walkable but wasn't as ritzy.

The inaccessible directions are NE and E. W was considered ghetto but has gentrified. The only parts harder to walk are up in the hills (pretty much impossible: narrow, windy, steep, no sidewalks) (E) and the hilly parts of North Berkeley (NE).

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#772

Post by tempsy »

PopeDotNinja wrote: post #764
tempsy wrote: post #727

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This story is insanely misleading though. Everyone here is talking about why the tech elite are leaving due to the quality of life when Keith Rabois specifically has like 3-4 IPOs he was an early investor in going public right now and makes no sense to stay in California in 2021 and pay state capital gains taxes on those sales. Same with Elon Musk and Tesla’s absurd stock price. And probably a lot of other people giv…

I think you’re echoing OP’s point. Some people come to California for opportunity, and when they find enough success, they leave. They’re not CA natives, they’re expats from places with less opportunity and crappier weather. People who want to live in California view the taxes as a cost of enjoying California.

No my main point is that people on here are reading into Rabois’ comments on quality of life issues at face value and not recognizing that his move out of state at this moment in time has to do with avoiding taxes on his IPO gains and not much else.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#773

Post by rconti »

cltby wrote: post #734
tempsy wrote: post #727

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This story is insanely misleading though. Everyone here is talking about why the tech elite are leaving due to the quality of life when Keith Rabois specifically has like 3-4 IPOs he was an early investor in going public right now and makes no sense to stay in California in 2021 and pay state capital gains taxes on those sales. Same with Elon Musk and Tesla’s absurd stock price. And probably a lot of other people giv…

But their success has very little do with the tax burden imposed on them by the state of California (c.f. any number of Seattle-based companies).

... so what you're telling me is, Washington has a very low tax rate and few people who complain about their overall tax burden?

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#774

Post by cltby »

tempsy wrote: post #752
cltby wrote: post #734

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But their success has very little do with the tax burden imposed on them by the state of California (c.f. any number of Seattle-based companies).

I don’t know what you’re getting at but it isn’t my point. And the other way to look at it is California is expensive because the opportunity to become rich is greater here than elsewhere.

> I don’t know what you’re getting at but it isn’t my point.

I can't tell if you're upset by their disingenuousness, or by their refusal to give a cut to the state. If the former, I sympathize. But it mostly seems to be the latter. The obvious rejoinder to which: why should they feel so eager to fork over their money to an institution that did ~nothing to contribute to their success?

> California is expensive because the opportunity to become rich is greater here than elsewhere

Your statement only explains the e.g. high housing costs. The tax question is orthogonal.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#775

Post by medium_burrito »

xiphias2 wrote: post #331
medium_burrito wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have 4 different official languages to choose from; surely it cannot be that hard to learn one of them for even the most meanly educated tech worker?

I tried to learn Swiss German, but gave up quite fast, it's just not my style. Also even people who came from Germany said that it's hard for them, and Swiss people never really take them in their social circle, that took away all my motivation. I could do everything in English though except the tax returns, it just didn't feel like home to me, so like many others I came away. Good luck fitting in for you when you ge…

I speak several languages fluently, so no big deal for me, but one of my talents is learning languages easily.

The not fitting in is a way bigger deal in Switzerland. Germans will never be accepted, no matter what. Eastern Europeans aren't even considered people.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#776

Post by chii »

iso1631 wrote: post #334
sandworm101 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Anyone working for a Silicon Valley Depending on your definition of wealthy, "anyone working" full stop. A large number of americans do not work (too young/old etc). Others are sick. Many at the top of society don't earn much income (tax voodoo). And automation is coming. If we define "wealthy" as the top 25/15/10% of wage earners, how soon before that is basically just anyone with a fulltime job?

Wealthy is about how much wealth you have, not your income. In 2020, $121,411 was the median household net worth in the United States. This is up from $97,225.55 in 2017. The average household net worth in 2020 was $746,821. It was $692,100 in 2017. The disparity between these two numbers is itself a major problem, but not the point. If you have a net work of $120k you aren't wealthy, even if you earnt that all in th…

I often hear arguments about capital gains taxes being an unfair advantage, and that it should be taxed the same as income.

But often these arguments don't present a full picture - because it only discusses the end result of the dollar received and compare the tax rates.

What about the risk? A job-income is 100% guaranteed to be received if one worked. Even if the business paying the said wage doesn't make a profit, they still have to pay the wage. The owner cops the loss.

Therefore, to encourage investments, the taxes are lowered on the profits of such type of investment (which is what capital gains are). The person trying to make capital gains income has to take on a risk that a wage earner doesn't, because the capital gains aren't guaranteed.

If capital gains are taxed the same, you will find that there will be less investments, which leads to less jobs and less wealth overall.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#777

Post by devtosales »

legerdemain wrote: post #703
mattcaldwell wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even smaller towns, like Asheville (where I am now), have a huge LGBTQIA+ presence. I moved from DC, which was pretty gay, and I feel like it's even more super gay here.

Presence, sure. What about legal protections around seemingly trivial daily things like bathroom use? Family planning services focusing on the needs of LGBT families? Doctors who have experience with LGBT patients, whom these patients can trust and talk to candidly? Churches that welcome LGBT members without pressuring them to change fundamental aspects of their lives? Mental health specialists that cater to LGBT nee…

Children don’t have diverse identities. I used to think I was Batman, my mate used to think he was black. Impressionable children are impressionable.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#778

Post by cltby »

rconti wrote: post #773
cltby wrote: post #734

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But their success has very little do with the tax burden imposed on them by the state of California (c.f. any number of Seattle-based companies).

... so what you're telling me is, Washington has a very low tax rate and few people who complain about their overall tax burden?

My comment is a reply to this: "To blast the Bay Area and state which made them rich and then flee before they owe a penny is gross."

It's not gross to minimize your obligations towards people who have done nothing for you. Seattle is the relevant counterfactual: flourishing tech scene without the punitive tax burden that we're supposed to believe enabled California's success.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#779

Post by greensquirrel »

habosa wrote: post #689

In the last 10-15 years San Francisco gained a ton of residents that didn't want to be there at all. They moved there because the job opportunities in tech were too hard to turn down. I had some friends like this, they just never really liked the city. Now they're all leaving because their job is not making them stay. That's fine and I'm happy they have more choices now. But there's a flip side to that. One of my lea…

> they just never really liked the city.

Pretty hard to like a city where a non-trivial portion of the residents are hating on you and blaming you and others like you for many problems of their own doing.

I left a year ago and I personally hope both San Francisco and all of California suffers fiscal collapse. The state grossly mistreats it's most productive citizens, when its those very citizens that fund the greatest chunk of the state's largesse. Hopefully enough major taxpayers will leave that it creates a fiscal crisis that can only be solved by increasing taxes further, driving more productive citizens out and sending the state government in a death spiral.

You'd be bitter too if you paid several hundred thousand in state taxes in 2019 to a state whose politicians probably at least halved your net worth by using your company as their whipping boy for years just to make themselves look good.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#780

Post by gmadsen »

nus07 wrote: post #582
rpearl wrote: post #555

Nobody really brings up that the bay area is one of few places in the US where you can live without a car. Really, even compared to other "walkable" cities beyond a select few, similarly expensive places. Nobody really brings up that the bay area has better LGBT and other minority protections than anywhere in the US, either. Every time someone mentions cheap midwest cities I have to pull up https://crossingenres.com/…

I agree on almost all of your points with a few caveats. - Cars : The Bay Area is very walkable but that’s mainly SF. The tech burbs of Palo Alto , Menlo Park are not super walkable and you are relying on the BART and other public transport . But Covid has destroyed public transport and cuts in funding threaten them further. LGBT : This is not really the 80s and 90s . Most big cities from DC, Atlanta, Austin ,Chicago…

the article referenced was from 2016... many of the LGBT issues presented are still real concerns.
Post reply on HN