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First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

bbc.com

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Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#111

Post by ChrisRR »

idnefju wrote: post #34
lagadu wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All countries will have covid forever[0]: it's an endemic disease to nearly all continents now, much like the flu or aids. [0]for values of "forever" that don't go into the far future where viruses may have a cure or an effective form of erradication.

Australia doesn’t have it. Wasn’t impossible, just had to stop air travel and lockdown for a period. Now the only people with COVID are returned Australian travellers from overseas who have to go on hotel quarantine

And are you going to keep your borders closed forever?

And i guarantee some people still have it. There's no way it's been eradicated completely. All it takes is for one infected person to visit 2 people, and those 2 people to visit 2 others.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#112

Post by [deleted] »

jacquesm wrote: post #33
ck2 wrote: post #14

Good luck to the average person getting it in the USA before March. Even with half the population refusing it because the anti-vax people might be even more crazy than the anti-maskers. Which makes you wonder which country will have covid longest.

Good chance that there is significant overlap between anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers.

[deleted]

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#113

Post by learc83 »

akmarinov wrote: post #25
ck2 wrote: post #14

Good luck to the average person getting it in the USA before March. Even with half the population refusing it because the anti-vax people might be even more crazy than the anti-maskers. Which makes you wonder which country will have covid longest.

The US vaccination plan has vaccinating non-essential (read average) people starting at around May-June, so no way it happens in March. Doctors, the elderly and other more at risk groups will get it before that.

The US vaccination plan is state by state. In many states people working in food service and grocery stores, people under 60 who are overweight, have high blood pressure, asthma etc... will be offered the vaccine in phase 2. It’s not just doctors and the elderly, it’s a huge chunk of the population.

And depending on how many people actually want the vaccine and how many are approved it’s possible that healthy, under 65, non essential workers could start being offered the vaccine.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#114

Post by avsteele »

vixen99 wrote: post #90
refurb wrote: post #69

As this rolls out I thought Derek Lowe had a good point to make https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/12/04/ge... When you vaccinate this many people, you will have those people die, get heart attacks, strokes, cancer, etc. Why? Because that would have happened to them anyways, vaccine or not. So don’t freak out when “issues” start to crop up. Wait until someone has a done a proper analysis to see if th…

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/370/6520/1022.ful... 'Public needs to prep for vaccine side effects, “Take Tylenol and suck it up,” says one researcher. Fever, aches show vaccine works'.

Thanks for posting that article.

That article is going to be a bad one for convincing people. They overstate COVID lethality and downplay people's worries about the side effects.

If this article is representative of the public messaging on the vaccine people are going to start being hesitant to take it. We've already seen some of this.

They should instead be talking about the # of people to whom the vaccines have been given and compare their outcomes to accurate COVID stats. This is how I've worked with people who are nervous, but I don't actually have the vaccine trial outcomes (other than # who got COVID) because I don't think they have been published!

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#115

Post by Munksgaard »

OneGuy123 wrote: post #94
refurb wrote: post #69

As this rolls out I thought Derek Lowe had a good point to make https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/12/04/ge... When you vaccinate this many people, you will have those people die, get heart attacks, strokes, cancer, etc. Why? Because that would have happened to them anyways, vaccine or not. So don’t freak out when “issues” start to crop up. Wait until someone has a done a proper analysis to see if th…

Funny that covid deaths are diagnosed the other way around: even if you die WITH covid it's assumed that you died BECAUSE of covid. But when it comes to the vaccine it should be the other way around? So we have to apply common sense to the vaccine related deaths but not to the covid related deaths?

Is this really true? I know that, at least here in Denmark, the relevant authority has sent out a note saying, explicitly, that dying of eg. a heart attack, while infected with COVID-19, does not count as a COVID-19 death. It also explicitly says the same thing about motor-cycle accidents, which I know has been a rumor that has made the rounds.

Source: https://sundhedsdatastyrelsen.dk/-/media/sds/filer/rammer-og...

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#116

Post by krona »

hannob wrote: post #84
SlateBlate wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this comment getting downvoted? seems like a fair question. I've seen this now in several threads where even questioning side effects of the vaccine gets downvoted and looked down upon like they did something illegal. This is not HN I used to know.

There's a tendency to highlight risks and sideeffects of this vaccine that is without any basis. It's reasonable to ask what the risks are, but unspecific ramblings about risks aren't helpful and it's unreasonable to highlight very hypothetical risks compared to the very real risks of getting Covid-19. Right now the risk issue seems pretty clearcut: There were no serious sideeffects in the trials. What gave me additi…

> It seems almost impossible that the vaccines pose a greater risk than the risk of not using them.

How about to a baby, or an unborn baby? The relative risk is almost certainly higher to a baby, but how high? We don't know, since there haven't been any longitudinal studies (for starters.) Which is why it would be unethical outside a clinical trial to administer it to younger people en masse.

Eventually the relative risk will be quantifiable, but it will take years. It took ~4 years for the increased risk of narcolepsy in children due to the H1N1 vaccine (Pandemrix) to be reported, for example.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#117

Post by kristianc »

qz2 wrote: post #107
chimprich wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't any evidence for serious side-effects from mRNA vaccines. The vaccines have undergone significant testing, and they're not doing anything magical. If you're going to insinuate that the vaccines have significant risks, you should provide some evidence. (This bar should also be a bit higher in my opinion in the middle of a public health emergency.) Compare a statement like "5g has great potential, but I'm r…

I think a lot of people here, me included, are well aware that despite your best intentions and best understanding and application of testing, things can go drastically wrong at or after launch of a new anything. Eventually we learn what the issue is and make sure it doesn't happen again. But if you look at all the tests we have in place, you have to remember that a significant number of them came from discovering st…

> his applies to everything from building bridges (University of Miami), through software products (Mars Climate Orbiter) to designing new medicines (thalidomide / paroxetine).

It probably says something that neither of the ‘new medicines’ you cite (neither of which are or were vaccines) are >30 years old. Thalidomide was banned before most people on here were born.

There’s reason for scepticism in all things - but scepticism for its own sake, and without any evidence other than association is probably less than helpful.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#118

Post by vixen99 »

jacquesm wrote: post #33
ck2 wrote: post #14

Good luck to the average person getting it in the USA before March. Even with half the population refusing it because the anti-vax people might be even more crazy than the anti-maskers. Which makes you wonder which country will have covid longest.

Good chance that there is significant overlap between anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers.

Generalized category labelling is not helpful though it may be enjoyable. We can ignore stalwarts of either extreme camp while taking note of, for instance, the measured tone of the Danish study on mask wearing.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#119

Post by refurb »

checker659 wrote: post #75
dbbk wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's not even any plans to offer vaccines privately in the UK yet. The NHS isn't going to offer it to travellers.

Not NHS, but what’s stopping private companies from purchasing from pfizer at 10x markup and selling to willing customers?

I don't think private parties will have any access to vaccine for a while.

Can you imagine the shit storm if some wealth person got vaccinated ahead of the doctors treating dying Covid patients. Ain't gonna happen.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#120

Post by refurb »

cpfohl wrote: post #35
mikepechadotcom wrote: post #32

I feel like mRNA vaccines have huge potential, but I am really, really concerned about potential side effects. Does anyone know which other helper-substances are inside the vaccine, besides the RNA?

Adjuvants in modern vaccines are extraordinarily well studied and safe. Current side effects include 6-24 hours of feeling totally crappy. Still beats Covid-19...

But the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines have no "adjuvants". What are you getting at?
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