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First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

bbc.com

21–30 of 404 posts

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#21
post #14

Good luck to the average person getting it in the USA before March. Even with half the population refusing it because the anti-vax people might be even more crazy than the anti-maskers. Which makes you wonder which country will have covid longest.

All countries will have covid forever[0]: it's an endemic disease to nearly all continents now, much like the flu or aids.

[0]for values of "forever" that don't go into the far future where viruses may have a cure or an effective form of erradication.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this age, you don't get admitted to an ICU bed

No, you do, because no matter the age, the family members still want to have a chance of survival of their loved one. My distant relative (70 year old) was in ICU for 30 days, and on ventilator for 14 days. Yes, that is a very long time for ventilator usage, and every day more on a ventilator increases the death rate probability percentage.

At the age of 90, your lungs are too fragile to be put on a ventilator. It was one of the reasons academics overestimated the number of ventilators required for COVID.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#23

A 90 year old woman in a nursing home is not spreading COVID. Wouldn't it make more sense to give this to people who are most at risk of spreading it, not dying from it? Why wouldn't we go at the root cause of the pandemic; young healthy asymptomatic spreaders?

Just as a side note, asymptomatic spread is a contested topic. If asymptomatic spread were a major driver of infection, this would be the first respiratory virus to work that way. Sources: - Nature study, 20th Nov https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19802-w - Maria Van Kerkhove, head of the WHO Emerging Diseases and Zoonosis unit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQTBlbx1Xjs - Fauci in 2018 https://www.youtube.c…

My casual understanding was that there werent really any asymptomatic spreaders, just "not symptomatic yet". Is this wrong?

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#24
post #6

A 90 year old woman in a nursing home is not spreading COVID. Wouldn't it make more sense to give this to people who are most at risk of spreading it, not dying from it? Why wouldn't we go at the root cause of the pandemic; young healthy asymptomatic spreaders?

Because stopping the elderly from overwhelming the health infrastructure needs to be step 1. ICU beds are extremely expensive.

The price is one thing, but after ICU you need to train to breath again, it takes a very long rehabilitation time.

It is a very invasive method of keeping someone alive and is only used in emergencies. Rehabilitation also binds resources.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#25
post #14

Good luck to the average person getting it in the USA before March. Even with half the population refusing it because the anti-vax people might be even more crazy than the anti-maskers. Which makes you wonder which country will have covid longest.

The US vaccination plan has vaccinating non-essential (read average) people starting at around May-June, so no way it happens in March.

Doctors, the elderly and other more at risk groups will get it before that.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you do, because no matter the age, the family members still want to have a chance of survival of their loved one. My distant relative (70 year old) was in ICU for 30 days, and on ventilator for 14 days. Yes, that is a very long time for ventilator usage, and every day more on a ventilator increases the death rate probability percentage.

At the age of 90, your lungs are too fragile to be put on a ventilator. It was one of the reasons academics overestimated the number of ventilators required for COVID.

Too fragile for a ventilator but not too fragile for ecmo.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#27

A 90 year old woman in a nursing home is not spreading COVID. Wouldn't it make more sense to give this to people who are most at risk of spreading it, not dying from it? Why wouldn't we go at the root cause of the pandemic; young healthy asymptomatic spreaders?

They looked at that, and modelled what would save the most life-years based on limited speed that the vaccine can be deployed, how well the vaccine works in stopping bad effects (i.e. death), and how well it works in stopping spread.

> JCVI has considered a number of different vaccination strategies, including those targeting transmission and those targeted at providing direct protection to persons most at risk. In order to interrupt transmission, mathematical modelling indicates that we would need to vaccinate a large proportion of the population with a vaccine which is highly effective at preventing infection (transmission). At the start of the vaccination programme, good evidence on the effects of vaccination on transmission will not be available, and vaccine availability will be more limited. The best use of available vaccine will also, in part, be dependent on the point in the pandemic the UK is at. Given the current epidemiological situation in the UK, all evidence indicates that the best option for preventing morbidity and mortality in the initial phase of the programme is to directly protect persons most at risk of morbidity and mortality.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you do, because no matter the age, the family members still want to have a chance of survival of their loved one. My distant relative (70 year old) was in ICU for 30 days, and on ventilator for 14 days. Yes, that is a very long time for ventilator usage, and every day more on a ventilator increases the death rate probability percentage.

At the age of 90, your lungs are too fragile to be put on a ventilator. It was one of the reasons academics overestimated the number of ventilators required for COVID.

This isn't a hard-set rule, just an extra factor in triage

Edit: Do you work at the JR by any chance? Asking as another Oxford Male based nearby!

https://academic.oup.com/biomedgerontology/article/60/1/129/...

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#29
post #21
post #14

Good luck to the average person getting it in the USA before March. Even with half the population refusing it because the anti-vax people might be even more crazy than the anti-maskers. Which makes you wonder which country will have covid longest.

All countries will have covid forever[0]: it's an endemic disease to nearly all continents now, much like the flu or aids. [0]for values of "forever" that don't go into the far future where viruses may have a cure or an effective form of erradication.

The reason we have AIDS is because vaccination against HIV is very difficult and expensive. I don’t see how this generalises to all viruses? Several viruses have been eradicated, and several more have been effectively eradicated in countries with functioning healthcare

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#30

I live in India. I am already hearing companies offering planned month long vacation tours to UK/US where you could get yourself vaccinated with vaccines that aren't available in India.

That seems bizarre — you’re much more likely to be able to get it privately in India or Thailand or any other country that has good healthcare for the rich and few qualms about allowing people to buy in private stock. Much easier to pay $500 to a private clinic in Mumbai than fly to the West and hope that you can convince the state to provide it
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