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With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

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Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#371

Post by throw_a_say »

throw_a_say wrote: post #363
495636483 wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would that work for lag? I assume there is some predictive aspects to a fluent gameplay these days. Also for the server to decide which e.g. player someone can see or not, seems quite intense. This seems inadequate to prevent aim assistance too. I mean it's a moot point anyway, since it's probably not too long until bots can play all games better, without additional information or help.

Prediction in online multiplayer games has been around since real-time multiplayer games existed. From my own first experience the first versions of counter-strike 1.x had it, but I'm pretty sure it started quite a while before that. And yes its a classic arms race, in the simple example I can connect my bot to the display output and to input as keyboard and mouse / gamepad and you could probably pretty easily get an…

Just to follow this up a bit

Who the fk cares if people cheat in online games? Funnily enough, a hell of a lot of people, but they are generally not talking about online video games, instead they are talking about protocols like DNS, HTTPS, amplication DoS attacks, cryptocurrencies, elections, any number of other things, and it turns out these really hard to impossible to solve, and they definitely don't lend themselves to real time multiplayer games easily.

For games it much easier, you just let people host their own servers, you let them own the compute, you let them manage and mod the servers, you let them build communities of people they want to play with. See Minecraft. Pretty sure that made a bit of money without worrying about losing revenue to some inventive kids who priate/mod/whatever the game. -_oo_-

Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#372

Post by invokestatic »

lmm wrote: post #342
invokestatic wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s nothing stopping you from using open source drivers, actually. Plenty of open-source projects like Dokan will typically run fine with an anti-cheat (ours will, certainly). What stops you from running a patched version is actually Windows itself, since Windows requires drivers to be signed with an authenticode codesigning certificate. Plenty of open-source projects and people have one, though. So it’s not an a…

If anti-cheat is the thing that cares about whether windows is running without driver signature enforcement then anti-cheat is the thing that's blocking me. My own example: I have an xbox 360 dancemat, which is unusable with the official drivers (they map the arrows as axes, so treat left + right as nothing). So I have to use the open-source XBCD, which frankly I'd treat as more reputable and better code quality than…

I sympathize with you and wish it was possible to support your situation and those similar situations like yours. It’s just disabling signature enforcement effectively removes a key security boundary between kernel and user space, something that that would just be too easy for cheats to exploit.

Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#373

Post by inetknght »

Zardoz84 wrote: post #226
inetknght wrote: post #162

I've been using Linux as my main (and, really, only) personal OS since Windows 7 went EOL. I have an HTC Vive. There are many VR games that don't work at all even with Proton. There are many games that do work though. The only game that doesn't work that I truly miss is Planetside 2. But your typical big name games do work, even ones that aren't on Steam. Doom, Factorio, Kerbal Space Program, EVE Online -- these all…

Ctrl+Alt+ESC and click the window of the game

No. That does different things in different desktop window managers.

In KDE it changes the cursor to a kill-cursor.

In Cinnamon it kills and restarts the GPU renderer.

Neither cleanly expresses what I want to do: kill a process which doesn't have a window but is owned by one which does.

Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#374

Post by rubyn00bie »

lambda_obrien wrote: post #52
rubyn00bie wrote: post #4

Gaming on Linux has been so fucking good. I switched from Windows to Linux a month ago and literally haven’t found a game I can’t play. Even Red Dead Redemption 2, Hades, Fallen Jedi, Ghostrunner... Oh the really icing on the cake is just how easy it all is. You literally just install the Windows version and things “just work.” Its amazing. I’ve said this a lot of times now but it’s pretty amazing to write code and p…

Rdr2? Fuck, I'm in. I built a PC that i couldn't get windows running on due to some stupid uefi or something, i can't figure it out so it's sitting in the corner and I'm using a PlayStation now. I'll try putting Linux on it so i can use them games i bought but couldn't use because software is a fucking drm nightmare these days.

Okay, while I'd definitely suggest just saying "fuck off to windows" 100% at this point... I mean it plays RDR2?! That was the moment I said "holy shit, I'm never going back" haha.

Anyway to the point... If you do ever really need to install Windows from a USB stick the only fucking thing I swear always works is using Rufus:

https://rufus.ie/

Last time I had to like bootstrap a Windows install without an existing one; I could not get anything to fucking make the usb drive bootable using MacOS or Linux at the time (I could be an idiot though). Eventually, I created a Windows VM, passed the thumb drive over to it, and used Rufus... worked immediately no fuckery to be had. Has worked every time since...

Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#375

Post by kbumsik »

m463 wrote: post #368
tarruda wrote: post #309

Something else that works super nice for gaming on Linux: GPU passthrough (gaming on a VM that has direct access to the GPU). I've been doing this since 2017. Back then I had built my first desktop computer powered by ryzen 1700 + 2 GPUs. Creating this setup had some challenges, but after the initial hurdle everything has been working perfectly (I imagine things must be easier nowadays). Created a windows 10 VM, assi…

do you do anything special to sandbox the games? I've been wanting to try out linux gaming and this makes it more interesting. I've also been thinking about videoconferencing/etc on linux running in the same manner.

I am using Windows VM with GPU passthrough too. If you want it out of the box (well, kinda) I would recommend Proxmox. Proxmox is amazing hypervisor OS. Otherwise you need to study tricky things a lot: QEMU, Kernel configuration for VFIO.

Also you may need hardware, especially motherboard that supports VFIO groups well.

Fortunatly there are quite big communities like Reddit in this topic. Just google "VFIO"

Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#376

Post by throw_a_say »

izacus wrote: post #98
marchenko wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgive my ignorance, but why do game servers ban Linux players in pvp games? Fear of some sort of modding only available on Linux?

Modern anticheats are basically kernel rootkits which go even to the point of trying to checksum your drivers and inspect how they work. They're basically as invasive as they get. They obviously can't hook into Linux kernel so they react by just banning the player.

Capitalism at its finest. Harmful measures to ensure profits, and mostly getting a pass because.. shiny things.

Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#377

Post by kbumsik »

moondev wrote: post #360
tarruda wrote: post #309

Something else that works super nice for gaming on Linux: GPU passthrough (gaming on a VM that has direct access to the GPU). I've been doing this since 2017. Back then I had built my first desktop computer powered by ryzen 1700 + 2 GPUs. Creating this setup had some challenges, but after the initial hurdle everything has been working perfectly (I imagine things must be easier nowadays). Created a windows 10 VM, assi…

Do you run two gpus? Or can you handoff to the VM when it boots and back when you shut down? Mind sharing your libvirt xml or qemu script? I've been meaning to give this a try!

Depending on your motherboard you might need two GPUs. In my case I use Proxmox and control VMs through is web GUI.

Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#378

Post by hnick »

invokestatic wrote: post #136
dylz wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to point out that if you want to go down this route, it is insufficient to just check that the base drivers are untampered with and signed by Microsoft or whatever vendor still. You now maintain a list of potentially vulnerable drivers that can be used as a jumping off point (such as virtually every motherboard RGB or fan control system), and ban users that have these or hard-disable them at boot. There are…

Before I “switched sides” to anti-cheat, I used to write and sell cheat software for CS:GO. I had a registered company and purchased an EV code signing certificate just as your post suggests, even getting my cheat drivers signed by Microsoft. I am very familiar with the process given than I’ve seen both sides now. While other anti-cheats maintain white lists or blacklists of vulnerable drivers, I’ve chosen a differen…

Without details, could you easily bypass your own anti-cheat with your past experience?

Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#379

Post by violetgarden »

heelix wrote: post #29

Gaming on steam works on Centos/RHEL as well as Ubuntu too. While most folks would not think of Centos as a desktop OS, we end up using it for our dev workstations as it matches up nicely with production servers. Christmas time last year, ended up having a bunch of vacation time to burn through and set out on a quest to get a game running on my work rig. The planets aligned with Centos 8, Steam, and AMD drivers somew…

Thanks for this! I was wondering if it would work on CentOS. I had Ubuntu on my personal computer because I had Ubuntu in my mind as the easy one for personal use, but I was working with Cent on another desktop and was actually surprised how much I liked the desktop experience on Cent.

Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#380

Post by mhh__ »

xnyan wrote: post #280
_peeley wrote: post #264

It's seriously astonishing how much progress has been made in the past few years regarding gaming on Linux. When I first made the jump to using Linux as a daily driver circa 2016, I had to keep a Windows partition to be able to play any game in the Steam library that wasn't native on Linux. With steady improvements to Wine and Valve's release of Proton however, I can play most games out of the box or with a minimal a…

>not to mention requiring kernel-level access, which is utterly ridiculous Not a troll question: how do you detect cheats run at the kernel level without kernel-level access? If you answer is "I don't want a game to have kernel level-access even if it means some cheats can't be detected", I respect that, but can you accept that others can make a different decision and not be "utterly ridiculous"?

I think the point here is that "Others" (i.e. My non-programmer friends who play Valorant, for example) don't know what a kernel is. I wouldn't have an issue installing something like Vanguard to play Tournaments but having a single point of failure like that (and totally unverified?) just to play casual is not good.

The bomber will always get through. I think the only way forward is by using a weaker anti-cheat combined with an ML and player-based (Like in CSGO) system to find cheaters. If cheaters get through, but they have to play within the bounds of what could be reasonably could be expected of a regular player, it doesn't really matter.

Push comes to shove you could make a fully visual triggerbot that doesn't even draw power from the machine (i.e. HDMI->Magic->MouseInput)

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