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With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

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Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#301

Post by eptcyka »

renewiltord wrote: post #199
invokestatic wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now I'm biased because I'm an anti-cheat developer, but I really can't see how checking the integrity of your installed kernel device drivers is at all invasive.

As a guy who plays games that have a lot of cheaters, it is incredibly frustrating. Riot's rootkit shit is a small price to play enjoyably with friends. I care more about the experience than I do about the risk of Riot fucking up my Windows install. Keep doing what you're doing. Just, if you'd leave the anti-cheat off friend-to-friend-PvP games, that would be cool. I don't care if my younger brother 'cheats' against…

I've not had issues with cheaters on Dots 2.

Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#302

Post by anewguy9000 »

jjd33 wrote: post #14
anewguy9000 wrote: post #2

as i understand it the big roadblock for multiplayer AAA titles is anticheat, and dont see anyway that changes until linux eats into the MS marketshare (but it should.. linux is a joy!)

The problem with anti cheat is that those are literally rootkits.

yup. i wonder if there's room for a different paradigm in the Linux community that works via some alternative like reporting or karma instead of spyware

Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#303

Post by mhh__ »

mdoms wrote: post #200

I only play two games at the moment and neither of them are viable on Linux. Call of Duty Black Ops Cold War is a non-starter even with Proton. Assetto Corsa Competizione will work, but not with my Thrustmaster wheel. Both of these are deal breakers on their own, but the real deal breaker is the uncertainty that comes with running Linux as a gamer. For example Cyberpunk 2077 comes out this week. Will it work? I have…

Both of the latest COD games have absolutely enormous stability issues on their supported platforms. Infinity Ward (and possibly Treyarch to a lesser extent) seem to be only just in control of their games - rampant size on disk, instability, etc. When the game works it's rather good, but it really seems like COD's time out of the spotlight hasn't kept its developers sharp.

Cyberpunk is DRM free so it should be OK on launch and only a matter of time if it's not.

Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#304

Post by ThatPlayer »

Cloudef wrote: post #288
ThatPlayer wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Players have a hard time telling if someone is cheating or not. Especially in game when you're not spectating. Did they see you through a wall, or is it just good game sense? Did they use an aimbot, or is their aim that good, or they did they get lucky?

Has worked well ages for games that had replay and spectating capabilities. MMOs are usually slower paced than fps games so in those server-side checks alone are enough. (Most asian mmos are lazy though and just trust the client and hope their shitty anti-cheat keeps cheaters away, of course it doesnt) Games for some reason today want single central server, instead of dedicated servers with user maintained communitie…

User maintained communities are not friendly to new users. CS:GO has user maintained communities, but most players do not use it. You can't build a community without new users, and new users want to play the game, not build a community.

Especially with team gameplay, players want proper skill based matchmaking. So that they don't have someone on the other team who destroys them. Or someone on their own team that is dead weight.

Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#305

Post by hombre_fatal »

akhosravian wrote: post #103
technofiend wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does Stadia strike you as an alternative? It works on anything (AFAIK) that runs Chrome.

Not op, but I think the biggest miss in cloud gaming is no one developing cloud first multiplayer games. Currently in any kind of client-server multiplayer game out there you face n+1 game states (n is the number of players) and a lot of the art is in how to reconcile these. The n+1 is due to most games implementing some degree of client autonomy (e.g. in movement), and the reality of network round trips from each cl…

The thing you're missing is that the point of client-side simulation and lag compensation is simply one of UX. It makes the game playable.

> Cloud gaming substitutes reconciling these n+1 simulations with some input latency for each player.

You're just pitching the naive networking model that every developer starts with (because it's trivial) until they realize how horrendous it is to wait 100ms on every single input.

Also, it's not "some input latency", it's the full latency of the entire round trip. From input to server (40ms) and then video to client (40ms) just to see how an action you did 80ms ago panned out.

You've eliminated none of the trade-offs, just exchanged one frustration (dying even though you shot someone before they shot you) with another (watching a delayed video feed of them shooting you while you wait for your input to cross the network).

There's a reason why client simulation is ubiquitous. Btw, lag compensation is really hard and nobody would want to do it if they could get away with the naive networking model.

Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#306

Post by YawningAngel »

invokestatic wrote: post #112
izacus wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern anticheats are basically kernel rootkits which go even to the point of trying to checksum your drivers and inspect how they work. They're basically as invasive as they get. They obviously can't hook into Linux kernel so they react by just banning the player.

Now I'm biased because I'm an anti-cheat developer, but I really can't see how checking the integrity of your installed kernel device drivers is at all invasive.

I think the reason why anticheat gets a very unsympathetic hearing is because it's frequently buggy or unpermissive, and people fundamentally don't like being locked out of their games. As a Linux gamer who's just unable to play some titles that run fine on my PC because the anticheat doesn't, any perceived flaw in anticheat immediately winds me up.

Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#307

Post by leetrout »

andrewzah wrote: post #294
rubyn00bie wrote: post #4

Gaming on Linux has been so fucking good. I switched from Windows to Linux a month ago and literally haven’t found a game I can’t play. Even Red Dead Redemption 2, Hades, Fallen Jedi, Ghostrunner... Oh the really icing on the cake is just how easy it all is. You literally just install the Windows version and things “just work.” Its amazing. I’ve said this a lot of times now but it’s pretty amazing to write code and p…

My issue usually has been with random indie games just refusing to work. Like Party Animals, which either refused to launch for me or my friends or had horrible performance. Among Us as well. Also any multiplayer competitive games that use anti-cheats are impossible to play. Valorant, for example. IMO it is well worth it to maintain a dualboot for windows games.

Agree. It’s odd that among us causes problems since there’s not a lot there and it works on android.

Most recent frustration for me was Firefighter Simulator. Ended up trying out a VMware product and playing it through a VM. Wasn’t great.

Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#308

Post by Cloudef »

ThatPlayer wrote: post #304
Cloudef wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has worked well ages for games that had replay and spectating capabilities. MMOs are usually slower paced than fps games so in those server-side checks alone are enough. (Most asian mmos are lazy though and just trust the client and hope their shitty anti-cheat keeps cheaters away, of course it doesnt) Games for some reason today want single central server, instead of dedicated servers with user maintained communitie…

User maintained communities are not friendly to new users. CS:GO has user maintained communities, but most players do not use it. You can't build a community without new users, and new users want to play the game, not build a community. Especially with team gameplay, players want proper skill based matchmaking. So that they don't have someone on the other team who destroys them. Or someone on their own team that is d…

I was active player during CS 1.6 era. I really didnt see the issues you mention and rarely actually met cheaters. When i did they were quickly vote kicked or banned out.

Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#309

Post by tarruda »

Something else that works super nice for gaming on Linux: GPU passthrough (gaming on a VM that has direct access to the GPU).

I've been doing this since 2017. Back then I had built my first desktop computer powered by ryzen 1700 + 2 GPUs.

Creating this setup had some challenges, but after the initial hurdle everything has been working perfectly (I imagine things must be easier nowadays).

Created a windows 10 VM, assigned 4 of my 8 cores, 16 GB of RAM (got 64 on the host) and a GTX 1070. This setup is enough to play pretty much any AAA game with max settings on full HD.

Besides having every game working perfectly, I get another nice side effect: sandboxing. No games (mostly proprietary software) have access to my personal/work files.

Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#310

Post by ThatPlayer »

owaislone wrote: post #272
mdoms wrote: post #200

I only play two games at the moment and neither of them are viable on Linux. Call of Duty Black Ops Cold War is a non-starter even with Proton. Assetto Corsa Competizione will work, but not with my Thrustmaster wheel. Both of these are deal breakers on their own, but the real deal breaker is the uncertainty that comes with running Linux as a gamer. For example Cyberpunk 2077 comes out this week. Will it work? I have…

Cyberpunk, like any other single player title is much more likely to work than games like COD, Apex or Fortnite. Most multiplayer games use some additional components like the EAC that explicitly is made to not run on Wine AFAIK. IIRC, EAC did work on Wine until Epic games patched it so it wouldn't anymore.

Every anti-cheat is hit or miss with Wine depending on the methods they use. Even Valve's own VAC continues to have issues with Proton: https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton/issues/3225

Like VAC, EAC does have a native Linux version, but that does require a native Linux port of games.

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