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72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

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Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#631

Post by Spivak »

twblalock wrote: post #462
Spivak wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the only thing that can stop this trend at this point is regulation unfortunately. Unless you make it a rule that TV manufacturers can’t do this putting them all on a level playing field the ones that do will always be ahead on price.

This is all a result of consumer preference -- dumb TVs were once the majority of the market. Smart TVs have taken over because people prefer them. Regulation should not be used to override clearly demonstrated consumer preferences or to force companies to produce products that few people want.

Umm. I’m not saying force TVs to stop being smart. I’m saying that you can level the playing field by saying that TV manufacturers aren’t allowed to collect user information or display ads. That’s the race to the bottom where users lose.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#632

Post by acka »

joshu wrote: post #357
mattnewton wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Commercial signage tvs tend to be much more expensive and never really go on sale though. I can't even find out the price of this product without calling them to talk to a salesperson?

Pro tip: you can Google for part numbers and find people who sell things.

Yeah, and if you're lucky enough to find a seller that way, 9 times out of 10 it will be a wholesaler who will only sell you stuff if you have a corporate account, meaning you either own a business yourself or are cleared by your boss to purchase stuff. Add to that the ludicrous shipping costs for anything weighing more than a box of cereal, insane import duties for anything worth more than say $50, plus a fat VAT slapped on top of all that, and most people in the rest of the world* will probably think twice about it.

TL;DR buying enterprise grade gear of any substance from across the globe as a consumer is a little bit more involved than ordering a pair of slippers frome some seller on AliExpress.

* as in: beyond the next Wal-Mart

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#633

Post by qwerty456127 »

Every person who cares about their privacy, should run a real firewall (NAT is not a firewall, DNS/hosts is not a firewall either) to control everything what goes in and out of their home network.

Unfortunately packet filtering is considerably obscure and most of the people (including most of the programmers and other techies who don't specialize in network administration) are afraid of approaching it.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#634

Post by bjelkeman-again »

caivvoacmh wrote: post #280
bjelkeman-again wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Europe I buy TVs aimed at office dashboard displays etc. No “Smart TV” with crappy software in my home.

Can you share what “dashboard display” you’re buying snd what’s the quality like compared to an actual TV? I just want a high quality screen ~55-65” to use with an AppleTV. I’m considering an LG oled cx because I don’t want android and will not use any of its features other than sound and display. I wish there was an oled display only for this use-case :(

I have one at home as a TV, four at work as dashboard displays for live data. No other affiliation.

https://www.swedx.se/#horizontalTab2

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#635

Post by nitrogen »

bootlooped wrote: post #588
nitrogen wrote: post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As is constantly brought up in these threads, there is often no dumb TV option available with higher end panels, and all of the TV vendors are incentivized to be equally evil.

I just don't think it's an issue for the majority of consumers. If you went up to random people on the street and ask whether they would rather have a smart TV or non-smart TV, I think mostly you would get dumbfounded looks of "of course I want the one with more features built-in".

Because that's a manipulative question. The true question is "Would you rather have a TV that spies on you, runs slow, stops working after a few years, and sends pictures of everything you watch to some other country, or a TV that does none of those things and lasts 10+ years?"

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#636

Post by scrollaway »

canofbars wrote: post #614
scrollaway wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

… how does a mic that is embedded in a remote control turn into a camera?

I don't mean that it will become a camera, but that it will be listed along side them. "Listen to this random persons living room / bedroom" makes for some entertainment for others.

Ok but again how does that help OP who needs something better than a smart TV to give to their parents?

Be pragmatic.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#637

Post by tptacek »

manigandham wrote: post #580
fiddlerwoaroof wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DoH absolutely can get network filtering: if I block port 53 outbound to control DNS queries within my network, DoH (and other tunneling technologies) is bypassing my network filtering of DNS.

The issue isn't network filtering, it's encryption. Standard DNS is unencrypted. DNS-over-HTTP is encrypted. Or DNSSEC or any number of newer standards that secure the DNS lookup. At that point, filtering will require MITM proxies, whether it's for DNS or HTTP or any other protocol. It's a trade-off with security on the open network meaning harder penetration and control in your internal network. There's no easy answ…

DNSSEC is not encrypted. Moreover, between end systems and DNS servers --- the scenario we're discussing on this thread --- it isn't even authenticated.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#638

Post by manigandham »

tptacek wrote: post #637
manigandham wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue isn't network filtering, it's encryption. Standard DNS is unencrypted. DNS-over-HTTP is encrypted. Or DNSSEC or any number of newer standards that secure the DNS lookup. At that point, filtering will require MITM proxies, whether it's for DNS or HTTP or any other protocol. It's a trade-off with security on the open network meaning harder penetration and control in your internal network. There's no easy answ…

DNSSEC is not encrypted. Moreover, between end systems and DNS servers --- the scenario we're discussing on this thread --- it isn't even authenticated.

Sure, DNSSEC provides authentication and integrity rather than encrypted traffic, which makes spoofing or rewriting the responses hard.

Why do you say it's not authenticated? If they're using the newer standards then that's what it provides. If they're not then there's no issue with network filtering as usual.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#639

Post by jeanofthedead »

Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #321
idiot900 wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're in luck. Buy a commercial TV, or a hospitality TV. For example: https://www.lg.com/us/business/commercial-tvs/lg-65ut640s0ua Other TV manufacturers make similar products.

Thanks for that, I have a standing need gap for 'Make TV dumb again' [1]. [1] https://needgap.com/problems/64-make-tv-dumb-again-privacy-c...

I was able to do this with my TCL/Roku TV a few months back. My curiosity got the best of me with the announcement of their latest OS, so I upgraded to see what the new features were like. Now I am stuck in the ecosystem, as the downgrade feature is completely disabled (even from a USB stick, with no internet connection, after a factory reset). Luckily, I use a Pihole as my DNS on my router, but still. Super annoying.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#640

Post by Zak »

protomyth wrote: post #521
mrmanner wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How exactly do you folks who avoid our DHCP's DNS expect us to comply with legal filtering requirements? I would argue that this is more a problem with the legal requirements than with the equipment - the law(maker) has expectations you can’t reasonably fulfill. Doesn’t make your situation any better of course, the law is the law even when it’s impossible

Its not a law problem. Its an expectation that technology isn't as random or stupid that it cannot keep a headstart kid from going to PornHub because some tech folks don't trust their ISP.

I think the classic "the network treats censorship as damage and routes around it" applies here.

Designing a device to connect to something over the internet even if the network it's connected to behaves strangely isn't random or stupid; it's just in conflict with your goals. Incidentally, last time I ran into a network with legally mandated filtering, I checked whether a google image search for "tits" worked. It did.

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