Earlier quoted context omitted.
Counterpoint: smart TVs are great. My LG has replaced almost every other thing that used to be in my media room. It is my streaming music box (I can target it for casting from my favorite iOS app, and I can use the interface on it for browsing my home network storage if I want). It has Netflix, Amazon, YouTube, Hulu, Disney, Vudu, Google TV, and every other damn thing on it. It has voice search, so I just say the nam…
No, this is a stupid point. You should always prefer a factored product, no pun intended. All of these "problems" are easily solved by buying a dumb tv and hooking a computer up to it. That way, if you ever need a TV without a computer hooked up to it, you can just separate them.
72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings
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Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings
#582This isn't difficult: TVs should not be "smart". TVs should be incredibly dumb. They should be screens for displaying stuff. That's it. Nothing else. No network connection of any kind, no apps, no software beyond that necessary to do basic setup of how that screen works: brightness, input selection, etc.
Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings
#583Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because you made a zero effort joke that has been worn to the absolute bone by people repeating it thousands of times per year in HN comments, rather than at least putting in a bit of thought as to what the risk is for this service. Here's a quick attempt: Track record: 8888 has been running for more than ten years. Popularity: It appears to be incredibly widely used; e.g. a research paper from 2013 claimed it was se…
> Track record: 8888 has been running for more than ten years. I understand the point you're trying to make here - but long-lived products are still shut down by Google, fairly often. Here's a list of some Google products that have been / were around for 10 years or more before being killed (or are slated to be killed soon): - Chrome Apps - Cloud Print - Fusion Tables - Youtube Video Annotations - Google Search Appli…
The point was that it's a multi-dimensional space, and the OP should actually consider the product rather than automatically go all "lol, Google product, bet it gets killed".
So if you think that "some old products were discontinued" is any kind of rebuttal, I clearly didn't make my point well enough. Of course that happens! The alternative is that any sufficiently old product would automatically become immortal, which would be a ludicrous idea.
8.8.8.8 clearly has a ton of users, which already differentiates it from basically everything on your list. It's also isn't something you could just put in a maintenance mode and forget about, unlike a lot of the things on your list, both due to the scale and due to the impact if it were to stop working. Something like "Google Showtimes" would not have been a big drain on resources for most of its lifespan... When there's a measurable cost to keeping a service running, the longevity does actually signal something about the business value.
Products with no users get killed by all companies. Products with hundreds of millions of users don't get killed with one exception: to migrate the users to a different product for the same task.
And that can't really happen with DNS! They can't replace the clients, nor force the clients to upgrade, and they can't change the protocol in a way that would force some kind of a migration. Even if they end up deciding that the service needs a full rewrite, the external interface will have to stay the same.
And once you think about the specifics, it actually becomes kind of an interesting discussion to have! What are the circumstances that could lead to this service being discontinued?
A complete migration from IPv4 to IPv6 might do it: part of the value of both this and 1.1.1.1 is that these are IP addresses that people can actually remember. Their IPv6 addresses do not have that property. Not holding my breath on that one though :-P And even if that migration ever finishes, it's plausible that operating systems start including a dropdown of well-known public DNS servers as one of the configuration options.
Could they replace DNS entirely? Come up with a "QuikDNS" that starts off as proprietary, is implemented in only Chrome and Android but never replaces DNS outside of their ecosystem? Or instead of a proprietary protocol just stop supporting classic DNS and only continue supporting DNS over HTTP? I don't see the former, there's just not enough wrong with the standard protocols for that to be worth it. I could definitely imagine the latter happening at very long timescales (like, not for at least 10 years). At the point where 99% of the traffic is DNS over HTTP, maybe the cost benefit ratio stops being there for classic DNS.
> and a lot of the things they killed were well used, long lived, and popular.
I don't think the examples you posted really match that description. Most of them weren't ever popular, let alone when they were discontinued. Maybe Picasa was?
Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings
#584This isn't difficult: TVs should not be "smart". TVs should be incredibly dumb. They should be screens for displaying stuff. That's it. Nothing else. No network connection of any kind, no apps, no software beyond that necessary to do basic setup of how that screen works: brightness, input selection, etc.
Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings
#585Smartphones too! OnePlus hardcodes Google DNS as secondary DNS & I'm sure many others do it too[1] . Forcing DNS requests to Pi Hole is the easiest option to defeat this. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/oneplus/comments/e0htyg/remove_goog...
Is this an Android-wide thing or really specific to OnePlus?
Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings
#586Earlier quoted context omitted.
Decoupling allows competition and places control in the hands of the user.
Didn't the user already exercise their control by choosing to buy a smart TV? And I don't think many people would say there is a lack of competition between TV manufacturers.
Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings
#587Another step in the silly device manufacturer / device owner arms-race. As long as people keep rewarding device manufacturers who treat owners as tenants it will progress. I wish people would just stop buying this garbage. They won't, though-- they see the features but not the down-side. The next step will be hard-coded DoH server IPs. Sly owners will NAT those to a transparent MiTM proxy. Then device manufacturers w…
1^4 exposes an endpoint on the regular IPs (1.1.1.1/dns-query) and dns.google is just pointing to the 2 IPs, so you could hardcode those as well. Not that you can redirect it:
> Sly owners will NAT those to a transparent MiTM proxy.
And do what about the pinned certificate/CA?
Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings
#588Earlier quoted context omitted.
Didn't the user already exercise their control by choosing to buy a smart TV? And I don't think many people would say there is a lack of competition between TV manufacturers.
As is constantly brought up in these threads, there is often no dumb TV option available with higher end panels, and all of the TV vendors are incentivized to be equally evil.
Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings
#589Earlier quoted context omitted.
By the same logic HTTPS is bypassing your network filtering of every service which happens to have an alternative available over HTTPS. So do you block HTTPS?
I would absolutely love to have control over HTTPS traffic on my network, specifically to enable my Squid proxy to cache HTTPS pages, but unfortunately not every device or even program supports custom CA's. I'd be the man-in-the-middle between the internet and every device I own.
Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings
#590I’m responsible for a bunch of IoT hardware, and every firmware spec I write includes a note on not using the DNS servers provided via DHCP. While sure there are companies explicitly doing this to avoid filtering, at least in my case it’s because a significant proportion of DHCP servers are configured to send DNS to your ISP, and ISP provided DNS is almost universally terrible. They’ll ignore TTLs, rewrite NXDOMAIN r…
As is DoT :)