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My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveillants

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Re: My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveillants

#61

Post by mlok »

mmgu wrote: post #20
edkennedy wrote: post #5

This is essential work, using the GDPR as a tool for data privacy journalism. Unfortunately, GDPR is only the beginning and lots of work like this needs to be done to uncover the breadth of the damage that is being done daily. Also, as the article states this shows that stronger laws need to be in place all over the globe.

(Journalist behind article.) Thank you! I can say that it is not easy to use subject access requests to get information. Without the help of Michael Veale’s template and a lot of grit, I don’t think I would have made it. Transparency is just a first step, but it is a powerful tool.

For those interested, Michael Veale’s template : https://michae.lv/access-template/

(From the "Method" part at the end of the full article : https://nrkbeta.no/2020/12/03/my-phone-was-spying-on-me-so-i... )

Re: My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveillants

#62

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy »

mgamache wrote: post #23
bjarneh wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True; although who knows what would hold up in court if anyone was to file a lawsuit based on some of these "digital contracts" we agree to every time we click "I agree".

I have a feeling that a judge would want to find them invalid, but what happens if he/she rules that they are non-binding? The chaos it would cause for US B2C businesses would be large. This alone may sway the courts to make them binding.

Customers should have the legal footing to negotiate every line in every contract with someone holding the status to negotiate on behalf of the company. If I can't negotiate my cell phone contact I'm placed in an impossible scenario where I either agree under duress or endure the impossible life of someone that refuses to sign contracts. Essentially, there are 4-6 contracts I'm capable of negotiating in my life out of tens of thousands I've agreed to under duress. Those 4-6 are: apartment lease (keep the Wi-Fi take off $50), groundskeeping (days, times, work to be done, breachs), trash (when, where). These negotiations are only possible because these companies have sole proprietors who will get on the phone to keep a customer. Let's move every company closer to this model by requiring every contract to be negotiable or, if online, optout no guarantees, no warranty, no liability, no tracking except for carefully and explicitly outlined exceptions.

Re: My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveillants

#63

Post by davvolun »

Moru wrote: post #31
MaxBarraclough wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being screwed over like this is illegal More precisely, these agreements generally aren't legally binding in Europe, but generally are legally binding in the US.

Usually there is a few lines at the end stating that wherever this is illegal, these parts are not binding. (Or something more legalese ofcourse)

That's kind of the thing though.

> Signer agrees to become contract murderer unless pre-empted by local laws and regulations.

I'm over-exaggerating, and I get the value when it's prohibitively expensive to write a TOS when it's essentially impossible to pre-emptively vet the legality of all possible clauses internationally as laws constantly change. But if the clause I wrote is technically valid, then what's the point? Just write a short phrase saying "We're going to do whatever we like, unless it's prohibited by law. Accept? Y/N"

Re: My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveillants

#64

Post by vlovich123 »

diarrhea wrote: post #43
miguendes wrote: post #28

Interesting article. Is there any way to mitigate the amount of data collected? If I turn GPS off can they still track my steps? One thing that I notice frequently is discussing some topic with my wife and then finding an AD related to the topic on Instagram, LinkedIn, and whatnot. Could be a coincidence but I not sure any more.

The tracking is extremly intrusive. With GPS turned off, accuracy is diminished, but locating the device is still possible via WiFi SSIDs and cell towers the phone is logged into. Maybe Bluetooth also plays a role. In the background, the phone uses its gyro sensors so it can tell what you are doing: walking, running, getting into a car/sitting down, getting out/up, ... The unsettling part is that location logging con…

If you actually turn off location services in the OS none of this tracking occurs. About the only remaining source would be the mag of apps implement their own harvesting of the Earth’s magnetic field. Such things are extremely technically difficult to do well (you’d need to map the mag signals across the world) and the accuracy isn’t great (somewhere between wifi and coarse cellular if I recall correctly).

If at any point this actually became a reality the OS would start treating mag access as needing location permissions.

Re: My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveillants

#65

Post by londons_explore »

diarrhea wrote: post #43
miguendes wrote: post #28

Interesting article. Is there any way to mitigate the amount of data collected? If I turn GPS off can they still track my steps? One thing that I notice frequently is discussing some topic with my wife and then finding an AD related to the topic on Instagram, LinkedIn, and whatnot. Could be a coincidence but I not sure any more.

The tracking is extremly intrusive. With GPS turned off, accuracy is diminished, but locating the device is still possible via WiFi SSIDs and cell towers the phone is logged into. Maybe Bluetooth also plays a role. In the background, the phone uses its gyro sensors so it can tell what you are doing: walking, running, getting into a car/sitting down, getting out/up, ... The unsettling part is that location logging con…

> The unsettling part is that location logging continues to work with the phone off

There are specific bits of malware that make the phone appear to be off when it is in fact powered on. Such malware typically requires root access or an exploit, and is the realm of shady governments not advertiser's. But if you don't have that malware, you can't be tracked when the phone is off.

Re: My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveillants

#66

Post by tleb_ »

mistermann wrote: post #57
bjarneh wrote: post #13

> “I agree,” I pressed. We had now made a binding agreement, the app and I. I hate this whole premise. We have to agree to an incomprehensible text wall of vague legal nonsense, that very often violate our own laws (as in this case), in order to install an app. These illegal contracts are completely void of any meaning, and it should not matter that you "agreed" to be screwed over like that. Being screwed over like t…

I wouldn't over worry about such things. If it was that big of a deal, the government would be "on it". After all, is Democracy not the best mechanism possible for executing the aggregate will of the people? And would the will of the people not be to not be tracked in this manner? I predict this undesirable situation will be eliminated in less than one year - or, in case it is more complicated than it seems (and ther…

This has been going on and known for a few years now, why would it change in the upcoming year?

Re: My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveillants

#67

Post by shuntress »

loa_in_ wrote: post #54
bjarneh wrote: post #13

> “I agree,” I pressed. We had now made a binding agreement, the app and I. I hate this whole premise. We have to agree to an incomprehensible text wall of vague legal nonsense, that very often violate our own laws (as in this case), in order to install an app. These illegal contracts are completely void of any meaning, and it should not matter that you "agreed" to be screwed over like that. Being screwed over like t…

You as a user can choose to uninstall it immediately and try alternatives until successful. Most people of course, akin to how paying with card makes you overspend because you don't see the money, agree to anything because it's just a button on the screen not a potentially predatory human person.

Those two things are not equivalent.

In the case of overly vague terms of service, people agree to them because there are essentially no options or alternatives.

Sure, it does not help that people agree to them without thinking about it. Which is somewhat similar to people spending money without thinking about how much they have.

Re: My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveillants

#68

Post by miguendes »

derwiki wrote: post #45
miguendes wrote: post #28

Interesting article. Is there any way to mitigate the amount of data collected? If I turn GPS off can they still track my steps? One thing that I notice frequently is discussing some topic with my wife and then finding an AD related to the topic on Instagram, LinkedIn, and whatnot. Could be a coincidence but I not sure any more.

Most likely a coincidence: https://www.avg.com/en/signal/facebook-listening-private-con... If it were true I feel confident that information would have leaked by now.

Nice, thanks for linking the article!

Re: My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveillants

#70

Post by matheusmoreira »

mgamache wrote: post #23
bjarneh wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True; although who knows what would hold up in court if anyone was to file a lawsuit based on some of these "digital contracts" we agree to every time we click "I agree".

I have a feeling that a judge would want to find them invalid, but what happens if he/she rules that they are non-binding? The chaos it would cause for US B2C businesses would be large. This alone may sway the courts to make them binding.

> The chaos it would cause for US B2C businesses would be large.

Literally who cares? Let them deal with it. It doesn't matter how much money they lose. They should have considered the consequences of abusing people's trust and violating their privacy under questionable consent.

Corporations are vastly more powerful compared to individuals. Courts obviously need to favor the latter in the vast majority of cases. To do otherwise is injustice.

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