Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveillants

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 176 posts

Re: My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveillants

#31

Post by Moru »

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #17
bjarneh wrote: post #13

> “I agree,” I pressed. We had now made a binding agreement, the app and I. I hate this whole premise. We have to agree to an incomprehensible text wall of vague legal nonsense, that very often violate our own laws (as in this case), in order to install an app. These illegal contracts are completely void of any meaning, and it should not matter that you "agreed" to be screwed over like that. Being screwed over like t…

> Being screwed over like this is illegal More precisely, these agreements generally aren't legally binding in Europe, but generally are legally binding in the US.

Usually there is a few lines at the end stating that wherever this is illegal, these parts are not binding. (Or something more legalese ofcourse)

Re: My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveillants

#33

Post by robin_reala »

miguendes wrote: post #28

Interesting article. Is there any way to mitigate the amount of data collected? If I turn GPS off can they still track my steps? One thing that I notice frequently is discussing some topic with my wife and then finding an AD related to the topic on Instagram, LinkedIn, and whatnot. Could be a coincidence but I not sure any more.

On iOS at least you can allow an app access to location data only while the app is in use (or not at all). Not sure what the situation is on Android.

Re: My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveillants

#34

Post by dalbasal »

bjarneh wrote: post #13

> “I agree,” I pressed. We had now made a binding agreement, the app and I. I hate this whole premise. We have to agree to an incomprehensible text wall of vague legal nonsense, that very often violate our own laws (as in this case), in order to install an app. These illegal contracts are completely void of any meaning, and it should not matter that you "agreed" to be screwed over like that. Being screwed over like t…

As people, we like to think categorically... especially "contracting" in the philosophical and legal sense. Whether its a medieval oath or a standard employment contract, the concept of "binding agreement" sorts out moral issues of consent and creates a platform for further relations.

Reality is generally less fussy about categorical boundaries. It likes spectrum. Linnaean classification is an approximation. Biology isn't strict about species, or even organism barriers. It's the same with a lot of cultural stuff.

On one end of the spectrum, we can have a business agreement negotiated diligently and in good faith between equal partners. On the other end, we have take-it-or-leave it agreements: The T&Cs stack a bank hands you when you take a loan. The wall of incomprehensible legalese we consent to when we use an app or website. An employment contract is somewhere on that spectrum. Employees may be able to submit "red line corrections" depending on their seniority and confidence, but generally its written by employers and treated as under their control.

In philosophy, contracts (including rhetorical ones like "moral contracts) are a popular mechanism for problem solving. They certainly are in law. In normal human life, norms are much more common.

Re: My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveillants

#35

Post by robin_reala »

sunstone wrote: post #32
eivarv wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're targeting European users, you need to comply with the GDPR.

In this case the user is in Norway which is not a member of the EU.

Norway integrated GDPR into its own legal system: https://lovdata.no/dokument/NL/lov/2018-06-15-38

Re: My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveillants

#36

Post by curiousgal »

robin_reala wrote: post #33
miguendes wrote: post #28

Interesting article. Is there any way to mitigate the amount of data collected? If I turn GPS off can they still track my steps? One thing that I notice frequently is discussing some topic with my wife and then finding an AD related to the topic on Instagram, LinkedIn, and whatnot. Could be a coincidence but I not sure any more.

On iOS at least you can allow an app access to location data only while the app is in use (or not at all). Not sure what the situation is on Android.

Same on Android 11. There's also an "Only this time" option.

Re: My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveillants

#37

Post by baxtr »

lode wrote: post #27
asicsp wrote: post #3

The thread also mentions https://nrkbeta.no/2020/12/03/my-phone-was-spying-on-me-so-i... which would be a better link than twitter.

Much more readable in Thread reader form: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1334465877153095680.html

So we have a very successful short messages app, that now resulted in another service to be successful, which combines the short messages into a long format. Innovation and evolution aren't always straightforward I guess!

Re: My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveillants

#38

Post by eternalban »

mmgu wrote: post #20
edkennedy wrote: post #5

This is essential work, using the GDPR as a tool for data privacy journalism. Unfortunately, GDPR is only the beginning and lots of work like this needs to be done to uncover the breadth of the damage that is being done daily. Also, as the article states this shows that stronger laws need to be in place all over the globe.

(Journalist behind article.) Thank you! I can say that it is not easy to use subject access requests to get information. Without the help of Michael Veale’s template and a lot of grit, I don’t think I would have made it. Transparency is just a first step, but it is a powerful tool.

You wrote: "It is uncanny to follow my own steps, even though they do not divulge any romantic affair, secret meetings, or embarrassing health issues."

Contact tracing addresses that shortcoming of the current surveillance tech. Today, finding out that 2 cell phones have been in proximity requires computationally expensive analytics on the server side. With the apparently mandated requirement for contact tracing, edge devices ("your" phone) will simply detect proximate "ids" and send that to the servers and that trivializes the task of determining your "romantic affair, secret meetings, or embarrassing health issues".

Re: My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveillants

#39

Post by lagadu »

robin_reala wrote: post #33
miguendes wrote: post #28

Interesting article. Is there any way to mitigate the amount of data collected? If I turn GPS off can they still track my steps? One thing that I notice frequently is discussing some topic with my wife and then finding an AD related to the topic on Instagram, LinkedIn, and whatnot. Could be a coincidence but I not sure any more.

On iOS at least you can allow an app access to location data only while the app is in use (or not at all). Not sure what the situation is on Android.

It's the same since at least Android 10, also you can allow one-off permissions as well.

Re: My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveillants

#40

Post by mattmanser »

gzer0 wrote: post #25
bjarneh wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True; although who knows what would hold up in court if anyone was to file a lawsuit based on some of these "digital contracts" we agree to every time we click "I agree".

The TOS of any European company cannot supersede the law of the European Union. Example; how one individual singlehandedy forced the hands of Spotify to reverse an API decision they made blocking the export of your playlists. Note how Spotify thinks their TOS supersedes the GDPR. It does not. Otherwise, we would have corporations directly creating laws. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24764371

The trouble with the GDPR seems to be that it relies on government enforcement.

For example the UK's enforcement arm, the ICO, recently found that the adtech industry was in violation of the GDPR, then did nothing:

https://www.openrightsgroup.org/blog/the-ico-must-fix-the-ad...

As far as I know, I can't personally sue these companies for this, and if the ICO does nothing then what's the law is meaningless.

The follow up from the Open Rights Group is here:

https://www.openrightsgroup.org/blog/parliament-must-hold-th...

If you care about privacy in the UK, please donate to ORG, I started a direct debit years ago and have always been impressed with their work and focus:

https://www.openrightsgroup.org/join/

Post reply on HN