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Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

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Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#581

Post by novok »

staticassertion wrote: post #238
ditonal wrote: post #40

One thing that happens in SV is: * Employer says "hey, we have all these convenient corporate app, wouldn't it be nice to be able to check work messages and work docs on your mobile? Just install our app to "corp-ify" your phone" * Employer now views your mobile device as containing sensitive company IP and therefore they have the right to snoop on anything on your phone. If you install corp on your phone, Google vie…

Seems weird. We have MDM at my company and there's no way I can "spy" on your phone or otherwise perform rootkit like work. It all goes through a work profile, which is isolated from your personal apps/ information.

If you can push and run an executable, you can theoretically root a phone or laptop whenever you need to. It doesn't even need to be root, a background process accessing the right things can be enough. It's not rootkit right now, but rootkit later.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#582

Post by dayjobpork »

austhrow743 wrote: post #554
brundolf wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of whether or not IT professionals should be worried about their salaries, labor power isn't just about compensation. Unions could negotiate for better parental leave (which is still atrocious throughout the US, even in relatively cushy jobs). Unions could empower tech workers to actually push back on unethical policies and projects, as opposed to right now where they get to make a statement and then nothi…

Parental leave is part of compensation. It's just extra cash but with strings attached. Things like parental leave are exactly why some people don't like collective bargaining. It means you get stuck being compensated with something you're not going to use instead of cash.

To be clear, you are against other workers benefiting from something if you yourself don't benefit?

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#583

Post by bonoboTP »

lokar wrote: post #485
shemnon42 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point of a $3000 contract review if the employer's response will be "Not changing it, sign or walk."

What we know is one person said that's what happened. I certainly know of people who have suggested and gotten changes to agreements like this. But you need to be professional about it.

What do you mean by professional here? My guess is some mix of emotional detachment, serious tone and use of the right jargon and vocabulary?

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#584

Post by fogetti »

rablackburn wrote: post #555
fogetti wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to know, the same system happens in Japan too. When you get the offer letter it's an outline only. Then you either accept the offer letter as it is, or walk away. Asking for the detailed contract (called 就業規則 in Japanese) will always end up losing your job offer, because you have no legal right to see the contract before you join the company. Some companies are so hostile (and this is the norm in my exper…

I still remember the furore it caused when I asked for a copy of the 業務規則. (because the new overtime pay policy was paying ~$3/hr worked after 10pm and I wanted to see the section that covered that calculation) I just wanted to read the actual language around hours worked and overtime because it was never stated what the policy was. Turns out you couldn’t read it without a director sitting next to you, and it was in…

I feel for you. I also had my fair share of labor rights abuse in Japan. My experience is that only foreigners are 'brave' enough to ever bring this up, which makes the whole situation even more miserable since you cannot expect any help from Japanese colleagues.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#585

Post by heyoni »

discordance wrote: post #464
nwsm wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have Teams installed on my iPhone. How does that give my company access to anything of mine?

Most corp IT teams require employees to install a mobile device management profile, which enables you to then run teams, get email access etc. it’s also what gives your company privileges on your phone. Some MDM profiles can have pretty nasty access enabled (e.g. route all IP traffic via Corp net, access device location at all times, remote wipe etc). Take a look at what your MDM profile says if you have one installe…

Can you be more specific? It's really hard to find information on this and I'm 90% sure I'm ok but I can't see what they're seeing.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#586

Post by cortesoft »

munk-a wrote: post #502
cortesoft wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people don't like carrying two phones.

Those people aren't barred from suffering from invasions of privacy and rootkits for the sake of a minor convenience. Most places outside of tech folks with tolls need to carry company tools where they go - doctors carrying hospital beepers was essentially a meme in the 90's.

I am just explaining why they don't just give everyone a phone right away.... my company asks you if you want a work phone or to use your personal phone and get a stipend

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#587

Post by dheera »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #377
gowld wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure? This is a nuanced issue. Ehat counts as "usage". Intentionally destroying evidence is a crime, but broadly automatically destroying data before you have any knowledge of an allegation is not. (Otherwise, thinks lke GDPR would be illegal in the US)

We’re talking about depositions, so the knowledge of an investigation followed by destruction of the data (whether intention or not) by handing the device over would be a crime. I can’t hand my phone over to the police and remote wipe it with iCloud, for example. Destruction when handing to a mugger is still ok.

Well it wouldn't be the user destroying data.

Judge: "Hand over that phone right now"

You: "Sure, I can hand it over, but all data will then get wiped by the device automatically due to Google/Apple/Samsung's anti-theft design and I don't have a choice"

After that it's upto the Judge whether to proceed with the handover or not. It will be the judge who destroyed the data if so.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#588

Post by dheera »

ampdepolymerase wrote: post #357
dheera wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need an OS that self-destructs all data if surrendered, and that should be a hardcoded feature of the OS. Something like a fingerprint scanner that needs to be scanned at least once every 24 hours or all data gets erased.

Only if it is a state owned (diplomatic) device. Without diplomatic protection, you can be can be charged with, depending on jurisdiction and circumstance, anything from evidence tampering, obstruction of justice, to contempt of court. Technical hacks to human problems are only viable when you are shielded by sovereignty.

Judge: "Hand over that phone right now"

You: "Sure, I can hand it over, but all data will then get wiped by the device automatically due to Google/Apple/Samsung's anti-theft hardware design and I don't have a choice in the software settings to disable that"

After that it's upto the Judge whether to proceed with the handover or not.

At this point, if the judge proceeds with the handover, it will be the judge who destroyed evidence.

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#589

Post by AshWolfy »

jjcon wrote: post #526
brundolf wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of whether or not IT professionals should be worried about their salaries, labor power isn't just about compensation. Unions could negotiate for better parental leave (which is still atrocious throughout the US, even in relatively cushy jobs). Unions could empower tech workers to actually push back on unethical policies and projects, as opposed to right now where they get to make a statement and then nothi…

>Organization is about changing a power balance; it's not just about money. Maybe I fundamentally misunderstand unions having only been in one for a short amount of time but I didn't feel any more empowered by having a union. It was a bunch of union fat cats arguing with corporate fat cats and all in all it just made the work more insufferable.

Union workers have better pay, better benefits, more job security, etc. Many unions are shitty, but even a job with a shitty union is better than a job with no union

Re: Google illegally spied on workers before firing them, US labor board alleges

#590

Post by square_usual »

cj wrote: post #324
DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised that the parent post was downvoted, because AFAICT it's a valid comparison. Is there something I'm missing?

In the context of starting a job at Google, I highly doubt you sign your employment contracts the day you show up for work. Typically employment contracts are signed and settled well before you enter the building as an employee. I would be surprised if the OP’s anecdote regarding the Googler pulled on the 1st day is in line with reality. Edit: apparently I’m wrong, the downvotes were deserved! I run hiring at my comp…

(Not Google) My first job out of college I was asked to sign quite a bit of paperwork on my first day, after I had relocated to their city.
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