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No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

sciencemag.org

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Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#271

Post by shakhahxhcj »

mlindner wrote: post #269
stephenroller wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't. But half the people got a placebo and half got the vaccine. 185 in the placebo group got covid, with 30 having severe covid, but 11 with covid and 0 severe in the vaccine group got it. So do you really think that totally by chance, one random group of 15,000 people got a ton of exposure, and another group of 15,000 had little-to-no exposure? The probability of that is quite low.

Just to clarify, 185 got symptomatic covid. The 185 doesn't include the unknown number of asymptomatic people.

I am curious why they didn’t test everyone. Is it just a cost/test capacity thing? Wouldn’t testing to catch asymptomatic cases increase statistical power to allow the study to yield results sooner with smaller error bars? Also, isn’t preventing asymptomatic cases an important function of the vaccine (to get to herd immunity)?

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#272

Post by nradov »

alisonkisk wrote: post #264
ping_pong wrote: post #263

How do they know that participants were exposed to Covid-19? Just simply through statistics?

They don't fullly know. They rely on statistics. I hope they at least ask subjects about exposure.

Subject reports of exposure are notoriously unreliable. People forget. And even when anonymity is guaranteed they lie about shameful behavior.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#273

Post by [deleted] »

stephenroller wrote: post #266
ping_pong wrote: post #263

How do they know that participants were exposed to Covid-19? Just simply through statistics?

They don't. But half the people got a placebo and half got the vaccine. 185 in the placebo group got covid, with 30 having severe covid, but 11 with covid and 0 severe in the vaccine group got it. So do you really think that totally by chance, one random group of 15,000 people got a ton of exposure, and another group of 15,000 had little-to-no exposure? The probability of that is quite low.

[deleted]

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#274

Post by CyberRabbi »

LgWoodenBadger wrote: post #236
CyberRabbi wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by the “benefit of a few”? How does anyone benefit from stifling vaccine development?

"benefit of a few" meaning "allow those few that were adversely affected to sue for damages" which would have the follow-on effect of hampering vaccine development

How can a vaccine have an adverse effect? Vaccines are safe

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#275

Post by vkou »

alfon wrote: post #16
ck2 wrote: post #8

Yeah but imagine being dumb enough to get infected and very sick over the next month before you can get both shots next year. Because there are going to be thousands, maybe millions who do that in the USA alone for no good reason.

Not everyone has the privilege of working from home while they get their meal preps comfortably delivered to their doorstep.

No, but most people can avoid gathering in restaurants, avoiding in-person shopping (All major grocery chains now support curbside pickup, as do many, many smaller businesses), and taking basic safety precautions like not hosting social gatherings, wearing a mask while at work, or in public places.

Instead, what we see is people going to restaurants as soon as they open, packed stores, Thanksgiving dinners with people who don't live in their household, and as of my last walk around the neighborhood, plenty of folks walking around with their noses sticking out above their masks. On the bright side, most of them do seem to have masks.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#276

Post by wait_a_minute »

dsabanin wrote: post #268
wait_a_minute wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why aren't you fond of transhumanism? At some point medicine and technology will advance so much that we can save and improve many lives by replacing bits of ourselves with superior artificial variants. Is that so bad?

As with all the progress, along with the good things transhumanism will bring, it will bring a hefty bag of bad things. And if you entertain the thought for a while, those bad things can be really, really bad, on a number of different axis.

Right, but just because bad things have come from science and technology doesn't mean that we get rid of science and technology. It means we have to be more vigilant about doing good things with our tools.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#277

Post by JasonFruit »

I was reading about Moderna today, and I found a number of articles from 2017-18 expressing concern about their secretiveness and impatience with both safety precautions and the failures that are inevitable in drug trials, based on the experiences of former employees and science journals. I can't deny that makes me nervous. I didn't see anything about it after that time, however.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#278

Post by mssundaram »

CodeWriter23 wrote: post #13

Wonder what the trial exclusion criteria was...it’s not referenced in this article.

Are the trial participants exposed to the virus purposefully or is the result that none of participants developed covid just from regular daily living?

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#279

Post by tpmx »

sp332 wrote: post #252
maxerickson wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A vaccine is likely to be safer for low risk people than a course of infection, it's not just helping slow the spread.

I think tpmx's point is that the virus would also be less dangerous for them, so getting the vaccine has less chance of having a net benefit for the individual.

Yeah, it was, but I think the argument that the vaccine is a safer option for this crowd is also a pretty persuasive argument.

I'm not exactly in this crowd (I'm 43) but given what I now know about the prevalence of scary long term covid-19 issues ("long haulers") in young people, I would take this vaccine in a heart beat "even" if I were young.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#280

Post by raducu »

rjsw wrote: post #243
w45673456354 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And autoimmune conditions, robbing a list from wikipedia: celiac disease, diabetes mellitus type 1, Graves' disease, inflammatory bowel disease, multiple sclerosis, psoriasis, rheumatoid arthritis, and systemic lupus erythematosus. I don't know how many people with conditions take immunosuppression medication. I take it for arthritis and alopecia and have come across many people on similar meds for diabetes or other…

There was a suggestion that people with autoimmune conditions were more likely to get "long COVID".

What is "long covid"?

People experiencing long term symptoms? I can believe that, my tinnitus after covid-19 is still there, even if I don't notice it as much.

Actual viral infection? I really doubt that, thoug perhaps it could hide like the herpes virus.

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