Earlier quoted context omitted.
I do not know if you aware or not, but there is a similar to mRNA vaccines, yet different (actually, almost mirror reflection of what mRNA vaccine is) invention called antisense drugs. Those are actually already used as antivirals.
Antisense drugs are the same biological material, but have a very different mechanism of effect. Specifically, mRNA vaccines require an immune response to be effective. The mRNA (vaccine) encodes a viral protein, and the host (human) immune system still has to learn to respond to that protein. Antisense drugs are much simpler, with no immune response required. The mRNA (the drug) itself simply binds to the target mRN…
No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19
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Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19
#12RNA vaccines have a huge potential in treating cancer as well. Basically, you can whip up a personalized vaccine which wakes the immune system up to the fact that it has a growing tumor on its hands. So far, the success rate is very far from 100 per cent, but the therapy sometimes works even in patients with severe late stage metastatized cancer and, in all likelihood, we will learn how to use it better in coming yea…
Yes i read some interesting article aswell regarding mRNA vaccines, but from my understanting mRNA vaccine aren't yet tested in humans right? Only animals or am i mistaken? EDIT: what my question is: is there another mRNA type vaccine out there fully developed (i'm not suggesting that they are bad!)? EDIT2: Guys, i will never ask question again in here. Begin downvoted for a genuine question.
Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19
#13Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19
#14Yeah but imagine being dumb enough to get infected and very sick over the next month before you can get both shots next year. Because there are going to be thousands, maybe millions who do that in the USA alone for no good reason.
Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes i read some interesting article aswell regarding mRNA vaccines, but from my understanting mRNA vaccine aren't yet tested in humans right? Only animals or am i mistaken? EDIT: what my question is: is there another mRNA type vaccine out there fully developed (i'm not suggesting that they are bad!)? EDIT2: Guys, i will never ask question again in here. Begin downvoted for a genuine question.
They have already been tested on cancer patients, with some very promising results. https://acir.org/weekly-digests/2020/august/rna-vaccine-for-... https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/11/201110102550.h... Some of the patients would probably already be dead if it wasn't for RNA vaccines.
Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19
#16Yeah but imagine being dumb enough to get infected and very sick over the next month before you can get both shots next year. Because there are going to be thousands, maybe millions who do that in the USA alone for no good reason.
Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes i read some interesting article aswell regarding mRNA vaccines, but from my understanting mRNA vaccine aren't yet tested in humans right? Only animals or am i mistaken? EDIT: what my question is: is there another mRNA type vaccine out there fully developed (i'm not suggesting that they are bad!)? EDIT2: Guys, i will never ask question again in here. Begin downvoted for a genuine question.
These Covid ones aren't the first that have been tested and shown safe in humans, but I believe they will be the first to be approved for release.
Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19
#18>>> Anti-vaxxers immediately jump on any report of possible adverse events in a vaccine trial (which are thoroughly investigated, of course). >>> Let’s spare a thought today for the person who signed up for the Moderna vaccine trial, received two placebo shots and died of covid19. https://twitter.com/kakape/status/1333401133260419072 --- edit: Please explain the downvotes. The vaccine volunteer would be alive if he w…
Maybe indicate otherwise? (Or explicitly state it if I'm wrong).
All of those that died during clinical trials deserve respect for signing up and helping us advance the medicine. Their death is a statistic, but not in the Stalin quote sense! It's a statistic that helped us find the treatment that will save millions.
Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19
#19For context, scheduling the meeting to review the candidates is running at 5-10% of the development time for these vaccines. 20M vaccines represent about 1/3 the elderly population in the US, there are about 1,300 deaths a day right now, and most deaths are in the high risk category. So you can estimate the cost of the delay to be quite high (depending on your assumptions, but hard not to estimate the cost to be >1000 lives). I'm unsure of any vaccine side effect or release that could be considered worse. Pendemrix caused 1 in 18,000 narcolepsy, which for the 20M at risk who could get the vaccine seems like a good trade-off (if this was as bad as that).
Moderna entered phase 1 trials in March. Vaccines entering phase 1 trials have a 33% success rate overall, 85% successful for efficacy. So this is not a case of hindsight bias, this was always reasonably likely to work. And these numbers include issues like enrollment issues, or the diesease dying out (ebola).
So lets make some assumptions to see what it would look like to "just approve things for the high risk in a pandemic":
For example, let's say that a vaccine maker instead of pushing something 85% likely to be efective pushed through pushed through something 40% likely to work. And for safety, let's just assume it's going to be 2x worse than the worst vaccine ever, so maybe 1 in 10,000 get narcolepsy. But they still push it through.
This implies taking the untested vaccine has a 40% chance of protecting you and 0.1% chance of serious side effect.
For the elderly, who at the beginning of the pandemic has a conservative IFR of >10% and let's assume a 10% chance of getting it. Not taking the vaccine has something like a 1% chance of death.
For the elderly, taking the untested vaccine would in this example would reduce your chance of death by 0.6% but increase the chance of serious disease by 0.1%. For most people, this should be an obvious decision to vaccinate, even using the most pessimistic adaptions possible.
It almost sounds like a conspiracy theory, but in the real world Moderna had a working vaccine in March, and it was always statistically likely to work with low relative downside (for some population), and it has been banned the entire time until now.
The next pandemic could be completely prevented if we focus our efforts on how to approve vaccine candidates in days not months.
Note: I think the bar for requiring a vaccination can/should definitely be higher than the bar to lift a total ban on a vaccine.
Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19
#20Wonder what the trial exclusion criteria was...it’s not referenced in this article.
Phase 2a and Phase 3 similarly listed.