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No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

sciencemag.org

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Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#261

Post by tim333 »

noja wrote: post #238
spullara wrote: post #215

The vaccine was developed in 48 hours (Feb 24th) following China sharing the DNA sequence. How many could we have saved?

How many could have been saved from injecting an untested vaccine on billions of people? What a weird question.

You wouldn't, indeed couldn't suddenly inject billions of people as the supply wouldn't be there.

Sinopharm have gone ahead and vaccinated about a million people before full testing with apparently no infections and no serious side effects so it's not that outlandish. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/20/china-has-give...

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#262

Post by aaron695 »

As an example of un-intended side effects the vaccine trial I'm on sets off HIV tests.

This obviously means HIV will increase.

Plus other things to consider. Like conspiracies. And the fact the cheap HIV test I ordered from China can tell me if I'm on the placebo or not.

With deaths from lockdown blowing up, HIV will explode anyway after shutting do the world economy for so long. But don't think it'll be smooth sailing politically and with today's media it's a nightmare.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#265

Post by orblivion »

bsmith89 wrote: post #206
orblivion wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm wondering if you could clarify a couple things for me: 1) "Skipping steps" This appears to be doing the opposite. In an old vaccine, you'd just dump a bunch of spike proteins into the system. Here, you're adding the step of making the body produce them. Could you clarify? 2) Why not just produce those spikes in a lab? Is it just much less resource intensive to have the bodies make them? 3) As far as stressing tha…

1) Yeah, besides picking the step of manufacturing virus parts, I agree, this is going a step back in the virus's life cycle. 2) It's hard to produce proteins in the lab. Our own cells are pro at it, though, including all of the post-translational modifications (like attaching sugars and careful protein folding) that can make all the difference. 3) Pretty much. Since it's just one gene being introduced, it will not p…

1) Ah, so manufacturing skips a step. Makes sense.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#266

Post by stephenroller »

ping_pong wrote: post #263

How do they know that participants were exposed to Covid-19? Just simply through statistics?

They don't. But half the people got a placebo and half got the vaccine. 185 in the placebo group got covid, with 30 having severe covid, but 11 with covid and 0 severe in the vaccine group got it.

So do you really think that totally by chance, one random group of 15,000 people got a ton of exposure, and another group of 15,000 had little-to-no exposure? The probability of that is quite low.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#267

Post by Emphere »

sandworm101 wrote: post #136
mrjaeger wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can read all of them in their published protocol at https://www.modernatx.com/sites/default/files/mRNA-1273-P301... under section 5.2.

There is an additional question that opens the door to all sorts of hidden exclusions: Were study participants given medical advice prior to participation? If I ask my doctor whether it is a "good idea" for me to participate in an investigational study like this, there are all number of reasons he may advise against. Those reasons form a defacto hidden list of exclusions. Would a doctor advise a patient with diabetes…

Why wonder? You can read in the original press release that there were ~5000 patients under the age of 65 with chronic diseases such as diabetes, severe obesity and cardiac disease. There were also ~7000 patients over the age of 65. That seems reasonable to me.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#268

Post by dsabanin »

wait_a_minute wrote: post #217
orblivion wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an atheist more or less and I agree with this sentiment. I'm not fond of transhumanism. But I don't think the mRNA vaccine process fits this description.

Why aren't you fond of transhumanism? At some point medicine and technology will advance so much that we can save and improve many lives by replacing bits of ourselves with superior artificial variants. Is that so bad?

As with all the progress, along with the good things transhumanism will bring, it will bring a hefty bag of bad things. And if you entertain the thought for a while, those bad things can be really, really bad, on a number of different axis.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#269

Post by mlindner »

stephenroller wrote: post #266
ping_pong wrote: post #263

How do they know that participants were exposed to Covid-19? Just simply through statistics?

They don't. But half the people got a placebo and half got the vaccine. 185 in the placebo group got covid, with 30 having severe covid, but 11 with covid and 0 severe in the vaccine group got it. So do you really think that totally by chance, one random group of 15,000 people got a ton of exposure, and another group of 15,000 had little-to-no exposure? The probability of that is quite low.

Just to clarify, 185 got symptomatic covid. The 185 doesn't include the unknown number of asymptomatic people.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#270

Post by Emphere »

whb07 wrote: post #62
nkjoep wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess survival rate means a different thing from side effects. I would be still cautious with that statement and not underestimate it.

Side effects of shutdowns include: * depression * suicide * poverty -> famine and disease * missed education * dependency on gov * freedoms given up and transferred to gov I also agree that there are other side effects, just like every disease.

Countries that didn't enforce strict lockdowns do worse economically

https://www.ineteconomics.org/perspectives/blog/to-save-the-...

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