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No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

sciencemag.org

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Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#181

Post by amanaplanacanal »

svrb wrote: post #119
mam2 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not ? I mean why would they be responsible for something they cant test ? Thats the part that makes no sense to me. If you are (healthily) afraid of a vaccine because its not tested enough, just take your responsibility and dont take it. Or take it but dont come complain and attack other people for something that no one can do anything about now.

> just take your responsibility and dont take it Is that going to be allowed? Do we seriously believe at this point that governments aren't going to make these vaccines mandatory, if not for everyone explicitly then at least in practice by making them mandatory for access to public services and spaces?

Are there serious suggestions that everyone be forced to take the vaccine? I haven’t seen that, and frankly I’m not sure that would stand up to court scrutiny.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#182

Post by Balgair »

blhack wrote: post #48

Does anybody have a good link for a layman's overview of how mRNA vaccines work? Lot's of nervousness from people around this, and would love to be able to help quell some of that.

Ahh, yes, ModeRNA's vaccine is some very clever stuff.

The way that one works is a bit complex. Essentially, they still want your immune system to recognize that the virus is bad and then make antibodies against it.

Usually, you inject broken up bits of a dead virus into a person. The immune system sees the foreign objects, and makes antibodies against it.

Withe ModeRNA's vaccine, we go inside out. You have the body produce inactive parts of the virus itself. In this case, the 'spike' proteins of the viral capsid.

They do this by injecting mRNA into you. Through some complex bio-chem, the mRNA that codes for the spike protein gets into your cells and makes the ribosome complexes produce the spike protein. These then get out of the cells, again via some complex bio-chem, and the immune system sees these spike proteins. The immune system then builds antibodies to the spike proteins, just like with a regular vaccine.

Basically, you skip a few steps in the antibody creation process.

I want to stress the mRNA injection part. This method skips the DNA, meaning that you are not editing the genetic code of the cell.

The real magic here is the potential such a method has. With this method, you can have much better targeted cancer cures, much broader flu vaccines, and time limited protein production. Think time-limited genetic engineering, minus the actual gene editing. Want to glow green for a few days? No problem. Want to mitigate diseases caused by missing DNA? Just take this.

Note: This is copied from a previous comment of mine here:https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25047289

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#183

Post by SomeoneFromCA »

topspin wrote: post #179
SomeoneFromCA wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are using a strawman argument here. We all very well know what the OP meant.

We do? I don't know who the OP had in mind at all.

The context is so simple to me, I have hard time believing the other readers can miss it. The OP means party-goers etc, not teachers, doctors and such.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#184

Post by [deleted] »

bodhiandpysics1 wrote: post #173
mnw21cam wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vaccine doesn't "hack or mix our DNA". Heck, it's trying to get the body to get rid of viruses. One particular type of virus (retroviruses) do "hack or mix our DNA".

The astrozenecca vaccine does!

[deleted]

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#185

Post by jccooper »

newdude116 wrote: post #49

Thats good but I would not be overly optimistic. Two question since I dont know much about mRNA vaccines 1. The mRNA has to express the target Protein for the Anitbodies. If injected, how does this happen? It has to go somehow into the cell to be translated? Or is the delivery vehicle the magic sauce? 2. What makes mRNA vaccines so special? What is the difference of injecting the expressed protein sequence directly?

The mRNA must enter a cell to express proteins. The delivery vehicle is a "lipid nano-particle", a particle that can contain a payload and attracts surfactants to protect the payload but also allow it to penetrate cell walls. They're a bit unstable, thus the need for refrigeration. The other way this can work is using a virus, which is what the Oxford vaccine does.

You can do protein vaccines, and some are coming, but they're slower to develop as you have to figure out a way to manufacture them; with a nucleic acid you can have the body do that part for you. Additionally, the mRNA produces a more complete response; some parts of the immune system react to proteins expressed on the surface of cells, which direct protein exposure doesn't do.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#186

Post by itodd »

HPsquared wrote: post #92
itodd wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can't fundamentally change your own DNA. The mRNA codes for a stabilized version of the sars-cov2 spike protein. Your cells then use the mRNA to build that protein. Your immune system will then build up a response. It is a terrible idea to wait for a version 2 of this vaccine. Get vaccinated or this will not go away.

Edit: nevermind

Hence my last sentence.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#187

Post by radiator »

renewiltord wrote: post #168
radiator wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't say? Then why are so many people here criticizing those who want to delay 4 years before testing this vaccine on themselves and on their family?

Well, presumably that's because of a lack of our ability to determine viral markers that identify spread with high certainty. If we could simply determine who we contracted COVID-19 from, we could easily sue them for damages and then you could take whatever risks you deem acceptable. However, considering that we cannot, there is some threshold level of danger above which society will deem your personal rights forfeit…

What gives you the idea that you are entitled to sue someone from whom you have determined that you have contracted covid-19?

And do you think you have this right only regarding this disease, or other similar diseases as well?

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#188

Post by dotuser »

Majromax wrote: post #125
tpmx wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relevant criteria for the question "does it it exclude old, fragile people with various common pre-existing conditions?" (not exhaustive, but indicative): Included: Pre-existing conditions are okay as long as they are in a stable condition (defined as no significant change in therapy etc for the 3 months before enrollment). Excluded: Immunosuppressive or immunodeficient state, asplenia, recurrent severe infections (H…

Immune suppressed/deficient patients are not good candidates for vaccines in the first place, since they would be unlikely to mount an effective immune response.

That sounds backwards. Shouldn't those with weakened immune response be first in line for the vaccine? The vaccine would give them a boost. Those with strong immune response have a better chance of fighting off the virus.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#189

Post by CamperBob2 »

orblivion wrote: post #134
nobleach wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm interested in this as the only pushback I've heard has been from some Christian folks on YouTube claiming that we're no longer "human" if we hack or mix our DNA. I tend to look at it more like "right to repair". If I buy an iPhone, I should be able to hack it to my heart's content. I have no idea if that's the angle you're mentioning. I'd be really interested to hear the other potential dangers that others see.

I'm an atheist more or less and I agree with this sentiment. I'm not fond of transhumanism. But I don't think the mRNA vaccine process fits this description.

Quite a bit of our DNA isn't "human" to begin with, never mind our cells themselves. In fact, most of the cells in our bodies are bacterial, as I understand it. (Edit, that's oversimplified and/or inaccurate, see below.)

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#190

Post by danmg »

qwerty1234599 wrote: post #148
danmg wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just recovered from it. I'm pretty sure I got it walking out of a grocery store. I was wearing a mask, and was walking by another older man who was also wearing a mask and standing at the exit. He was hacking and coughing so hard that the mask did nothing. I tried to hold my breath as I got until I got outside, but it was to no avail. About four days later, I developed flu like symptoms. Sometimes, it doesn't matte…

Did you socialize face-to-face in the week before falling ill?

I wore a mask around other people, and attempted not to cross paths with others.
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