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No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

sciencemag.org

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Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#91

Post by danmg »

ck2 wrote: post #8

Yeah but imagine being dumb enough to get infected and very sick over the next month before you can get both shots next year. Because there are going to be thousands, maybe millions who do that in the USA alone for no good reason.

I just recovered from it.

I'm pretty sure I got it walking out of a grocery store. I was wearing a mask, and was walking by another older man who was also wearing a mask and standing at the exit. He was hacking and coughing so hard that the mask did nothing. I tried to hold my breath as I got until I got outside, but it was to no avail. About four days later, I developed flu like symptoms. Sometimes, it doesn't matter how smart or "dumb" you are, anyone can get it.

We may have an effective vaccine now, but it will be another six to nine months before you can go to your doctor and request the series as a normal person.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#92

Post by HPsquared »

itodd wrote: post #72
ed25519FUUU wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit: I do plan to get the vaccine, but as a software engineer I know beta versions usually have the most “bugs” — and I have the health privilege to be in the back of the line so I will!

It can't fundamentally change your own DNA. The mRNA codes for a stabilized version of the sars-cov2 spike protein. Your cells then use the mRNA to build that protein. Your immune system will then build up a response. It is a terrible idea to wait for a version 2 of this vaccine. Get vaccinated or this will not go away.

Edit: nevermind

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#93

Post by marvin »

whb07 wrote: post #62
nkjoep wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess survival rate means a different thing from side effects. I would be still cautious with that statement and not underestimate it.

Side effects of shutdowns include: * depression * suicide * poverty -> famine and disease * missed education * dependency on gov * freedoms given up and transferred to gov I also agree that there are other side effects, just like every disease.

Soooooo... If you were somewhat pragmatic, you'd acknowledge that a lot of people, maybe even a majority, actually support various social distancing measures and shutdowns. These measures certainly have a negative economic impact, irrespective of whether a negative economic impact would happen just due to the voluntary measures of these people.

And regardless, wouldn't it be a net gain to deploy a vaccine? It would certainly be more effective at placating this group of people than implying they're all idiots.

It would be a huge benefit towards resuming a relatively normal society, regardless of whether they're right or whether they're somehow all just a bunch of nervous morons. So why would you criticise it?

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#94

Post by lisper »

jimbob45 wrote: post #80
CyberRabbi wrote: post #74

Why is AstraZeneca asking for exemption from liability claims stemming from their COVID-19 vaccine? https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-astrazeneca-results-vaccin...

> “This is a unique situation where we as a company simply cannot take the risk if in ... four years the vaccine is showing side effects,” Ruud Dobber, a member of Astra’s senior executive team, told Reuters. Seems pretty straightforward to me. It’s an unproven method of vaccine creation and hasn’t been tested by anyone. I really can’t imagine this holding up in courts though.

> I really can’t imagine this holding up in courts though.

Why not? Liability waivers are common in other industries.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#95

Post by discardedrefuse »

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #58
blhack wrote: post #48

Does anybody have a good link for a layman's overview of how mRNA vaccines work? Lot's of nervousness from people around this, and would love to be able to help quell some of that.

Edit: I do plan to get the vaccine, but as a software engineer I know beta versions usually have the most “bugs” — and I have the health privilege to be in the back of the line so I will!

"mRNA vaccines do not affect the DNA inside the cell – the synthetic mRNA fragment is a copy of the part of the virus RNA that carries the instructions to build the antigen of the virus..."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_vaccine

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#96

Post by learc83 »

whb07 wrote: post #54

Hurray for a vaccine that is > 90% effective on a disease that for those who get it have a > 99% survival rate. Bring on the new overlords.

Those 2 numbers aren’t comparable.

A 1% death rate with a disease as contagious as COVID means more than 50 million dead globally at some point (not everyone will get it but the majority will eventually).

Near universal vaccination with a vaccine that is 95% effective at preventing severe cases means saving 47.5 million lives in that scenario. Despite the disease having a 99% survival rate.

If the vaccine provides sterilizing immunity (or just reduces your ability to pass it on), it could save more, and wouldn’t even require universal vaccination to do so.

Furthermore, people are staying home voluntarily in many places. An effective vaccine will alleviate their fears and help the economy. In a way that telling people not to worry about a <1% chance or death will not.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#97

Post by mam2 »

jimbob45 wrote: post #80
CyberRabbi wrote: post #74

Why is AstraZeneca asking for exemption from liability claims stemming from their COVID-19 vaccine? https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-astrazeneca-results-vaccin...

> “This is a unique situation where we as a company simply cannot take the risk if in ... four years the vaccine is showing side effects,” Ruud Dobber, a member of Astra’s senior executive team, told Reuters. Seems pretty straightforward to me. It’s an unproven method of vaccine creation and hasn’t been tested by anyone. I really can’t imagine this holding up in courts though.

Why not ? I mean why would they be responsible for something they cant test ? Thats the part that makes no sense to me.

If you are (healthily) afraid of a vaccine because its not tested enough, just take your responsibility and dont take it. Or take it but dont come complain and attack other people for something that no one can do anything about now.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#98

Post by orblivion »

dnautics wrote: post #87
orblivion wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My recent absolute favorite is Lupe Fiasco explaining it to Hotep Jesus (some NSFW language): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0MA48bfshw#t=2h14m3s The overall video is a about vaccines in general (Hotep Jesus is rather skeptical of them), but Lupe explaining how mRNA vaccines work starts at this timestamp. There's also a place where the audio cuts out. It's only a minute or so, but they go back and finish where they…

I love how Lupe doesn't simplify it so far to say "it never goes in reverse".

I'm curious what those rare cases are.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#99

Post by whb07 »

marvin wrote: post #93
whb07 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Side effects of shutdowns include: * depression * suicide * poverty -> famine and disease * missed education * dependency on gov * freedoms given up and transferred to gov I also agree that there are other side effects, just like every disease.

Soooooo... If you were somewhat pragmatic, you'd acknowledge that a lot of people, maybe even a majority, actually support various social distancing measures and shutdowns. These measures certainly have a negative economic impact, irrespective of whether a negative economic impact would happen just due to the voluntary measures of these people. And regardless, wouldn't it be a net gain to deploy a vaccine? It would c…

I agree we should have a vaccine, I do not agree with mandatory shutdowns and all the negative down stream side effects which are PROVEN to be larger than the disease itself.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#100

Post by seibelj »

iguy wrote: post #53
faitswulff wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An individually tailored cancer treatment is already available in the form of the CAR-T therapies, which might give an indication of how expensive it’ll be - you were pretty much right on the dot, since each treatment in a course of treatments is estimated at $375,000.

What is this money spent on? Is it a real cost per dose, or just a made-up number for something made in a research lab? Maybe another way to ask is: On the scale from 400k of white-shoe lawyer-hours, to 400k of custom 7nm silicon-etching, where should I mentally place this? The former isn't going to budge, the latter will cost pennies in a generation's time.

What they charge might be made up, but the costs of developing these drugs are astronomical. My wife is a cancer research scientist in immunotherapies and she can burn through tens of thousands of dollars in materials running a single experiment. And if she makes a mistake - the money is wasted!
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