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No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

sciencemag.org

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Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit: I do plan to get the vaccine, but as a software engineer I know beta versions usually have the most “bugs” — and I have the health privilege to be in the back of the line so I will!

A sunburn can change/damage your DNA.

And people take precautions to avoid it because skin cancer can result. Not sure that's the best counter example.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#82
post #48

Does anybody have a good link for a layman's overview of how mRNA vaccines work? Lot's of nervousness from people around this, and would love to be able to help quell some of that.

My recent absolute favorite is Lupe Fiasco explaining it to Hotep Jesus (some NSFW language): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0MA48bfshw#t=2h14m3s The overall video is a about vaccines in general (Hotep Jesus is rather skeptical of them), but Lupe explaining how mRNA vaccines work starts at this timestamp. There's also a place where the audio cuts out. It's only a minute or so, but they go back and finish where they…

I get that that's probably Lupe's shtick, but I think half (or more) of the things he's describing to Hotep Jesus are things that your average person doesn't know!

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#83

Wonder what the trial exclusion criteria was...it’s not referenced in this article.

Can read all of them in their published protocol at https://www.modernatx.com/sites/default/files/mRNA-1273-P301... under section 5.2.

Relevant criteria for the question "does it it exclude old, fragile people with various common pre-existing conditions?" (not exhaustive, but indicative):

Included: Pre-existing conditions are okay as long as they are in a stable condition (defined as no significant change in therapy etc for the 3 months before enrollment).

Excluded: Immunosuppressive or immunodeficient state, asplenia, recurrent severe infections (HIV-positive participants with CD4 count ≥350 cells/mm 3 and an undetectable HIV viral load within the past year [low level variations from 50-500 viral copies which do not lead to changes in antiretroviral therapy [ART] are permitted]).

Looks fair enough to an amateur like myself.

Edit: Not sure how common a immunosuppressive or immunodeficient state is in a typical population. Perhaps it's common enough to be relevant?

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#84
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: would you wait if there was a pact to the effect that either everyone takes the vaccine, or no one does? Because obviously not getting vaccinated when everybody else does is almost always the best choice game-theoretically speaking; it doesn't really say anything on the vaccine (it may say more on the civic sense of the individual).

Let's see... it's a calculus of death vs potential long term adverse effect: P(death) I'd take the vaccine in a heartbeat, long term effects and all, if P(death) was 10% or higher.

What about the known long term effects of Covid?

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#85
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: would you wait if there was a pact to the effect that either everyone takes the vaccine, or no one does? Because obviously not getting vaccinated when everybody else does is almost always the best choice game-theoretically speaking; it doesn't really say anything on the vaccine (it may say more on the civic sense of the individual).

Let's see... it's a calculus of death vs potential long term adverse effect: P(death) I'd take the vaccine in a heartbeat, long term effects and all, if P(death) was 10% or higher.

How about P(get covid, infect others, they die)? Does that factor in to your calculations?

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#86
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Note: I think the bar for requiring a vaccination can/should definitely be higher than the bar to lift a total ban on a vaccine. It's unlikely in the US that the federal government could require vaccination. States maybe could but only because of very old case law that might well not stand up today. Of course, private workplaces, schools, government offices, airlines, etc. could to the degree that it might be quite…

> States maybe could but only because of very old case law that might well not stand up today. Of course, private workplaces, schools, government offices, airlines, etc. could to the degree that it might be quite difficult at some point to refuse. States probably can compel people to take it, considering some already require it for use of public services like schools. I’m guessing private companies can do whatever th…

IANAL, but the Supreme Court case I'm aware of upheld a Massachusetts law requiring smallpox vaccinations (in 1905). That said, the Supreme Court also upheld forced sterilization of the mentally defective in the early 20th Century so I'm not at all sure 100-year old court cases would be expected to be upheld today.

I don't really disagree with you in general. SWAT teams won't be holding people down and injecting people by force. But the practical effect isn't that different from a jurisdiction effectively requiring proof of vaccination to leave your house.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#87
post #48

Does anybody have a good link for a layman's overview of how mRNA vaccines work? Lot's of nervousness from people around this, and would love to be able to help quell some of that.

My recent absolute favorite is Lupe Fiasco explaining it to Hotep Jesus (some NSFW language): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0MA48bfshw#t=2h14m3s The overall video is a about vaccines in general (Hotep Jesus is rather skeptical of them), but Lupe explaining how mRNA vaccines work starts at this timestamp. There's also a place where the audio cuts out. It's only a minute or so, but they go back and finish where they…

I love how Lupe doesn't simplify it so far to say "it never goes in reverse".

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#88

Why is AstraZeneca asking for exemption from liability claims stemming from their COVID-19 vaccine? https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-astrazeneca-results-vaccin...

Because they have no way of testing for side-effects that could occur 4 + years down the line.

> “This is a unique situation where we as a company simply cannot take the risk if in ... four years the vaccine is showing side effects,”

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but there have been plenty of people in the US gathering unnecessarily, not for essential work, but in large groups for Halloween parties and bars, with extended family and older relatives for Thanksgiving, and are likely to gather multiple times for Christmas once again. Now unsurprisingly the pandemic is out of control, hospitals in many regions are overcapacity and the overworked essential healthcare workers m…

Social interaction is essential for humans, not optional.

I am well aware. But what is not essential are indoor weddings with hundreds or thousands of guests, a night at a packed bar, or a 30 person Thanksgiving dinner, when hospitals are overflowing and healthcare workers sick with the virus themselves are being asked to work overtime.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/11/14/9341852...

The virus has been around for almost a year now and people are still acting like we have no idea how it works or that uncontrolled spread can cause a disastrous collapse of healthcare systems.

Re: No one who got Moderna's vaccine in trial developed severe Covid-19

#90

Why is AstraZeneca asking for exemption from liability claims stemming from their COVID-19 vaccine? https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-astrazeneca-results-vaccin...

> “This is a unique situation where we as a company simply cannot take the risk if in ... four years the vaccine is showing side effects,” Ruud Dobber, a member of Astra’s senior executive team, told Reuters. Seems pretty straightforward to me. It’s an unproven method of vaccine creation and hasn’t been tested by anyone. I really can’t imagine this holding up in courts though.

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