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YouTube shadowbans video titled “The CIA is a Terrorist Organization”

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Re: YouTube shadowbans video titled “The CIA is a Terrorist Organization”

#111

Post by mrunkel »

mschuster91 wrote: post #82
gruez wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Talk about the military industry, crime financial complex, pretexts to war or history of US foreign policy [...] and see yourself get delisted from Google, smeared in the media, then get harassed by various agencies uhh, what? You frequently see posts critical of all of those on reddit and hn, and to my knowledge the things you've listed didn't happen to them.

The ones that delve into the really juicy parts have it harder: Julian Assange fights extradition after being holed up in an embassy for years, Edward Snowden had to claim asylum in Russia, Reality Winner got locked up, Chelsea Manning got jailed for a year for refusing to testify against Assange, ABC and a journalist got raided by police in Australia, Indymedia Linksunten got dissolved as a "criminal enterprise" by…

But just about all of those people listed are alleged to have committed actual crimes. They may have done so for noble reasons, and a large group of people may not agree that they should be crimes, but they are currently still crimes.

Re: YouTube shadowbans video titled “The CIA is a Terrorist Organization”

#112

Post by bryanrasmussen »

capableweb wrote: post #71
jmnicolas wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voltaire said something like "to know who your masters are, look at who you can't criticize".

That quote seems to be coming from nazist and convict Kevin Alfred Strom, not Voltaire. According to Wikipedia, the full quote is "To determine the true rulers of any society, all you must do is ask yourself this question: Who is it that I am not permitted to criticize?" and Strom first published "All America Must Know the Terror that is Upon Us" in 1993. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/nov/27/cory-..…

I'm pretty sure Voltaire didn't say it in English, meaning the full quote above it like the one that parent comment said was like something Voltaire said - a translation of something that Voltaire actually said.

In that case I think the two translations convey the meaning about equally well, and I don't think that because one translation comes from a bad person makes it any worse a translation of what Voltaire intended.

Re: YouTube shadowbans video titled “The CIA is a Terrorist Organization”

#113

Post by leftyted »

bladegash wrote: post #24
rubyist5eva wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely ridiculous - do Americans even know why the country was even founded anymore?

Do you? Not to over simplify things, but freedom, liberty, and equal treatment were pretty much empty words and applied only to white American men (see: treatment of Native Americans, the Mexican-American war, slaves, and women). Federalists were very clear in their commentary and design of the Constitution that they were in favor of broad federal powers and feared populism and direct democracy. The Bill of Rights wa…

> Do you? Not to over simplify things, but freedom, liberty, and equal treatment were pretty much empty words and applied only to white American men (see: treatment of Native Americans, the Mexican-American war, slaves, and women).

This is nonsense. The US was a left-wing experiment. It was a repudiation of the way things were done in Europe. The fact that it didn't solve every single inequity in one blow is not an interesting observation.

It's fair game to criticize the US, but to misunderstand its history to this extent is just sad. The US was radically egalitarian at its founding and served as the example for the rest of the world for at least a century and a half.

John Adams: "I always consider the settlement of America as the opening of a grand scheme and design in Providence for the illumination and emancipation of the slavish part of mankind all over the earth."

Re: YouTube shadowbans video titled “The CIA is a Terrorist Organization”

#114

Post by 4bpp »

gruez wrote: post #47
jmnicolas wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voltaire said something like "to know who your masters are, look at who you can't criticize".

And the popular reply to that is "orphans with leukemia"

I think you could make a good case that orphans with leukaemia are a stereotypical example of a utility monster, where the moral halo around them leads our society to waste tons of resources that would go much further doing something unglamorous like, say, free mass vitamin D supplementation. Would this rise to the level of criticism? Because I wouldn't be particularly worried about making that statement and signing it with my real name. Sure, the Society for Saving Orphans with Leukaemia and the ten people who read their tweets may be very upset at me, but I doubt that my employment or social situation would be seriously threatened, I'd find my phone calls mysteriously redirected, be rejected at the US border or barred from flights altogether.

Re: YouTube shadowbans video titled “The CIA is a Terrorist Organization”

#115

Post by bladegash »

konjin wrote: post #109
bladegash wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a great point and I wish I had added that in! It definitely wasn't comparable with that of those in power, and much of the Anti-Federalists' fading into nonexistence was due to that power imbalance. However, I would say white men lower in socioeconomic status still held far greater rights than that of, for example, slaves and women.

The right to be drafted and die yes. The rich could literally bribe their way out of conscription.

I was more so referring to the right to vote, run for office, etc. You are certainly not wrong about the other parts though.

Re: YouTube shadowbans video titled “The CIA is a Terrorist Organization”

#116

Post by Amezarak »

forest_dweller wrote: post #43
bladegash wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you? Not to over simplify things, but freedom, liberty, and equal treatment were pretty much empty words and applied only to white American men (see: treatment of Native Americans, the Mexican-American war, slaves, and women). Federalists were very clear in their commentary and design of the Constitution that they were in favor of broad federal powers and feared populism and direct democracy. The Bill of Rights wa…

People like yourself that constantly bring up the wrongs of the past and constantly remind people that things were less than perfect in the past constantly don't seem to understand that: * Much like many things society progresses, generally in the western world that progression has tended towards greater liberty (in most respects) of its citizens e.g. Tom Holland (a documentary film maker in the UK) argues the separa…

There is no such thing as progress, just shifting societal norms. This cannot be seen as “progress” except retrospectively.

Re: YouTube shadowbans video titled “The CIA is a Terrorist Organization”

#117

Post by jeanlucas »

kossTKR wrote: post #68
jeanlucas wrote: post #23

Just watched the video, read the thread. Here are some thoughts. First of all, the video uploader is promoting a competitor to YouTube. This is not disclaimed clearly. The video goes over criticism to the CIA, which are fair enough. But it takes some things as axioms, for example, that only the US are interfering/meddling in the world. He presents it as "the US is the bad guy and the world would be fair without the C…

Wow, your post is beyond sinister! 1) He did not imply the world would be "good" if the CIA didn't exist. That's a ridiculous take and is smearing a very well researched channel. 2) Youtube didn't just stop promoting this piece. They are hiding it. You can't find it even if you search for it. 3) He's not just trying to "create a buzz", department of homeland security paid him a visit now his videos are disappearing -…

Replying point by point:

(1) He does imply that in the script yes, in several ways. Pay close attention to moments like "like a good democracy should never have interference".

(2) The bit about YouTube hiding is good point taken, I didn't notice that, I thought it was just not showing up in recommended videos.

(3) He is also trying to create a buzz, the homeland security visit is not related to that video. My point is not that it is not worrisome, but that this is nothing new. The US is like this since the beginning. Have you ever seen what happens to journalists that crack open the NSA and CIA?

(4) And it does not imply that, but implies that YouTube is not a platform for free speech, as it has never been. No novelty here. Surprisingly if it was the TV times this wouldn't even go live, no it is going live. The system is changing little by little, but doesn't mean it is 100% free speech. Never was.

Re: YouTube shadowbans video titled “The CIA is a Terrorist Organization”

#118

Post by bladegash »

vezycash wrote: post #102
bladegash wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you? Not to over simplify things, but freedom, liberty, and equal treatment were pretty much empty words and applied only to white American men (see: treatment of Native Americans, the Mexican-American war, slaves, and women). Federalists were very clear in their commentary and design of the Constitution that they were in favor of broad federal powers and feared populism and direct democracy. The Bill of Rights wa…

> Edit based on comment below (thank you Supermancho): Patrick Henry's quote above was related to the absence of the Bill of Rights and was an Anti-Federalist. This is confusing. Had to read 5-10 comments down to understand your edit . If patrick henry wasn't against bill of rights then remove it from your original statement. And then place the errata statement / disclaimer at the end. Sample: I previously claimed th…

Fair point, was trying not to make it seem like I was hiding the original error, but your suggestion does that in a much clearer way. Thank you!

Re: YouTube shadowbans video titled “The CIA is a Terrorist Organization”

#119

Post by jeanlucas »

boudin wrote: post #79
jeanlucas wrote: post #23

Just watched the video, read the thread. Here are some thoughts. First of all, the video uploader is promoting a competitor to YouTube. This is not disclaimed clearly. The video goes over criticism to the CIA, which are fair enough. But it takes some things as axioms, for example, that only the US are interfering/meddling in the world. He presents it as "the US is the bad guy and the world would be fair without the C…

I didn't see any claim in the video that the CIA is the only organization of such sort. It might make you feel this way because it's entirely focused on the CIA. It didn't claim neither that the world would be fair without the CIA. It's definitely one-sided and is just a quick overview of the CIA (but you wouldn't expect more from a short video on such a big subject), but I fail to see how it is propaganda.

My point is not that it clears all other organizations, but doesn't even mention one other. Which is an editorial choice.

edit: not only that, but also implies that the CIA actions are one-sided, as in other players were not trying to mess and do the same to harm the US in the same actions (let's say, Iran).

Re: YouTube shadowbans video titled “The CIA is a Terrorist Organization”

#120

Post by forest_dweller »

bladegash wrote: post #61
forest_dweller wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People like yourself that constantly bring up the wrongs of the past and constantly remind people that things were less than perfect in the past constantly don't seem to understand that: * Much like many things society progresses, generally in the western world that progression has tended towards greater liberty (in most respects) of its citizens e.g. Tom Holland (a documentary film maker in the UK) argues the separa…

Let's not generalize "people like yourself", when people like myself hold a much more nuanced view of U.S. history and progress than your post suggests. Yes, we have made a lot of progress over time and will continue to do so. However, I think you need to read my comment in the context of the original post, which was "do Americans even know why the country was even founded anymore?". I think a perfectly reasonable re…

> Let's not generalize "people like yourself", when people like myself hold a much more nuanced view of U.S. history and progress than your post suggests.

I think that you like to think you do and I will leave it at that.

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