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Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

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Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#101

Post by Rochus »

LeanderK wrote: post #83
lukeqsee wrote: post #26

As an American immigrant to Switzerland, don’t move here to be on the cutting technical edge. You will be sorely disappointed. It’s a function of societal mentality (slow to change as a way of ensuring enduring stability) and size (fewer people, fairly spread out, only two or three cities big enough to be tech hubs). I moved here for a lot of other reasons, and I’m very happy with my decision and its benefits, but a…

I've heard there's a lot of cutting technical edge in zurich due to the ETH, would you disagree?

Sure, ETH is at the top on university world ranking and there is a long history of innovations and nobel price laureats.

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#102

Post by rjsw »

ehvatum wrote: post #55
skratlo wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope there won't be one, at the end, what good really came out of Silicon Valley anyway? The good parts can be equated to any other place where innovation takes place, be it in Europe or elsewhere. The rest is tons of crap and speculation.

Many of the items on this list seem questionable to me, but perhaps the ideas first nucleated there. From https://www.siliconvalleyhistorical.org/silicon-valley-achie... : • Long distance high-voltage transmission • Amplifying vacuum tube • First commercial radio broadcast • Long distance continuous-wave radio transmissions • Mobile radio systems development • Klystron tube and microwave • Radar • Electronic measurin…

I realize you copied the list but I would argue that radar was not invented in Silicon Valley.

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#103

Post by aerosmile »

> Is Switzerland better than Silicon Valley for software developers?

The entire article compares data between Switzerland and other EU countries (the accuracy of which is a whole another topic), and then this is used to compare Switzerland against Silicon Valley?

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#105

Post by corty »

Nimitz14 wrote: post #86
corty wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany, the southwest, especially Swabia, is more conservative than the north. More tidy-freaks, stingy pennypinchers, more-concerned-with-the-appearance holier-than-thou, "we have always done it like this" and "you didn't clean your sidewalk properly, I've found a leave". Maybe "Kehrwoche" and "schwäbische Hausfrau" will yield sone entertaining google results. Businesswise, it is the region of small to medium fa…

I have so many issues with this. 1. BW is governed by the greens. You know what counties get the highest CDU vote in elections? It's not in the south, it's in Niedersachsen (Cloppenburg etc.). 2. Switzerland has different cantons which are very different. I live in the French part where the average person speaks three languages and 40% are foreigners. 3. I can totally understand swiss' people wish to be separate, thi…

1. Nope, BW greens are not a counter for the population and businesses to behave in a conservative way. Also, BW greens are kind of special, Kretschmann and Palmer are seen as pariahs in the rest of the german green party. They aren't even very green, e.g. they are quite supportive of the local BW car industry which the rest of German greens wants to see gone yesterday.

2. Yes, the French and Italian speaking parts are quite different. But thats less than half of Switzerland, and the big spot everyone seems to be drawn to seems to be Zürich.

3. Yes, but that is just a reason, not a counterargument. Also, costs are TWICE as high in certain areas, i.e. personell and stuff that is not imported from the EU.

4. I don't know what you are doing, and of course I do wish you all the best. But beware and remember that the costs will be high. Switzerland is much more automated than the neighbours, because noone can afford hiring people.

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#106

Post by Nimitz14 »

dirtnugget wrote: post #54
Nimitz14 wrote: post #24

Moved here recently, find it great so far. I didn't realize how many foreigners there are in Switzerland. Speaking three languages is normal!

Switzerland is inherently multi-lingual. They have four official languages and there are regions in Switzerland where each of them are predominantly spoken (except for Romansh I guess). The German-speaking part just happens to be the largest and also where the capital is located.

Don't know why you felt the need to tell me that? Swiss people are in reality not that multilingual, the foreigners are (because they know native+french/german+english language).

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#107

Post by jandrewrogers »

langitbiru wrote: post #44
somedude895 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to agree. Apparently it's very hard to get funding for novel ideas in Switzerland. And yes, risk aversion is a big part of Swiss culture, an example of which being that Swiss are some of the most over-insured people, and savings rates also regularly top the charts. A fairly egalitarian society with a high standard of living makes for a people that doesn't like or "have to" take risks

And there is a quote: "In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock." Sometimes I wonder whether one of the factors that makes US the mecca of technology is the lack o…

The primary advantage of the US is cultural. It is not just the anomalously high risk tolerance and wealth, but people who attempt audacious goals tend to be celebrated. Americans shed the Tall Poppy Syndrome that is a very visible feature of virtually all other European cultures, perhaps because the US was predominantly settled by "tall poppies".

After years of working in various parts of Europe, I think it distills down to this. Sufficient talent, desire, and capital exists in Europe -- it is missing no ingredients -- but society there pervasively and subtly undermines anyone who dreams of attempting something really bold. It is a shame.

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#108

Post by gumby »

sologoub wrote: post #99
gumby wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is local produce even closer (e.g. half moon bay and San Jose) but they days of watching wheat harvesting next to Intel HQ, or cherry production next door to Cadence HQ are gone. Where Google is now was bean fields I used to cut through after saving my emacs buffer at work.

Not sure which of the many of their offices you are talking about, but the main Googleplex looks to be on a superfund site from previous semiconductor manufacturers - not an ideal agricultural site. Edit: Link to map: https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/toxic-plumes-the-dark-... Used to live in HMB, but don’t recall a creamery. Definitely some cool small producers in Pescadero still.

"produce" -- I used it in the conventional US sense of non-grain vegetables and fruit, which HMB is full of. I also don't know of any dairies there specifically; I'm sure there were some once but that would have been before my time!

I moved my company into the Landings complex (just off Rengstorff) in the early 90s (SETI was also there!). SGI and then Alza built their HQs on what was a bean field a few years later. Building 42 is where the old SGI complex was; the only remaining SGI building that still looks something like its original form is the Computer History Museum.

Yep, a lot of the valley land is contaminated thanks to semiconductor production and military use. (in the case of the wheat field next to Intel -- I remember thinking "I hope I never eat something made with that wheat!" That particular map won't display in my browser but I wouldn't be surprised if Ames/Moffet leachate perfused the area, including where the googolplex is now. I worked at Ames for a while when it was a military base and the disposition of chemicals in those days was pretty scary. Where the OSH is now (previously, and briefly Sun Headquarters) was the FMC plant making the Bradley Fighting Vehicle and their chem waste could have leaked across 101 and contaminated that area as well.

When I worked in (the city of) Santa Clara about 10 years ago I worried about the water supply because of all the former semiconductor plants. Luckily the city had a map showing the water system. The residential areas were on Hetch Hetchy water but the industrial areas were on well water. Scary! That was the only time I was willing to pay for bottled water.

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#109

Post by LeanderK »

Rochus wrote: post #101
LeanderK wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard there's a lot of cutting technical edge in zurich due to the ETH, would you disagree?

Sure, ETH is at the top on university world ranking and there is a long history of innovations and nobel price laureats.

yeah, but I was wondering whether they managed to built a high-tech ecosystem around the ETH. I know that at least google has offices there, but I don't know what it's like in zurich and how much cutting edge high-tech is actually done at these offices.

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#110

Post by Rochus »

LeanderK wrote: post #109
Rochus wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, ETH is at the top on university world ranking and there is a long history of innovations and nobel price laureats.

yeah, but I was wondering whether they managed to built a high-tech ecosystem around the ETH. I know that at least google has offices there, but I don't know what it's like in zurich and how much cutting edge high-tech is actually done at these offices.

See e.g. https://ethz.ch/en/industry/entrepreneurs/spinoff.html, https://ethz.ch/en/industry/entrepreneurs/spinoff/uebersicht..., or https://www.technopark.ch/

Why do you think Google and other big companies have large development departments in Switzerland? There are a lot of very well educated and hardworking people, and job satisfaction is high.

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