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Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

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Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#81

Post by izacus »

dbspin wrote: post #45
somedude895 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to agree. Apparently it's very hard to get funding for novel ideas in Switzerland. And yes, risk aversion is a big part of Swiss culture, an example of which being that Swiss are some of the most over-insured people, and savings rates also regularly top the charts. A fairly egalitarian society with a high standard of living makes for a people that doesn't like or "have to" take risks

I don't know how egalitarian it is. Having visited Geneva and spoken with many people there about the crazy high cost of living - it seems that most low wage earners survive by living in nearby French towns and commuting in to work. That's an economy maintained by the indentured servitude of non-native people.

The commute of most of those workers is usually less than half of what most rockstars of Sillicon Valley need to endure, not to mention that the public transport extends to border towns in France and is significantly better than the one in SV. Geneva lies directly on the border so those towns are way closer to most workplaces than Oakland is to San Francisco.

The issue with Geneva is that there's no more physical space to build - but living in France with Swiss Geneva canton minimum wage will boost your quality of live way beyond most San Francisco dwellers.

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#82

Post by gumby »

sologoub wrote: post #48
gumby wrote: post #22

> In 2019 Switzerland attracted $ 445 million of investments. With twice the population of Silicon Valley this alone points to "no". If you add SF and the rest of the Bay Area, the populations become much closer, but the investment ratio is far worse. Of course the economy here has become rather lopsided over the past 20 years while Switzerland's economy is more diverse. (e.g. I don't think I've drunk local milk sinc…

Off topic, but Strauss brand is fairly local and quality is amazing: https://www.strausfamilycreamery.com/

There is local produce even closer (e.g. half moon bay and San Jose) but they days of watching wheat harvesting next to Intel HQ, or cherry production next door to Cadence HQ are gone. Where Google is now was bean fields I used to cut through after saving my emacs buffer at work.

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#83

Post by LeanderK »

lukeqsee wrote: post #26

As an American immigrant to Switzerland, don’t move here to be on the cutting technical edge. You will be sorely disappointed. It’s a function of societal mentality (slow to change as a way of ensuring enduring stability) and size (fewer people, fairly spread out, only two or three cities big enough to be tech hubs). I moved here for a lot of other reasons, and I’m very happy with my decision and its benefits, but a…

I've heard there's a lot of cutting technical edge in zurich due to the ETH, would you disagree?

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#84

Post by durnygbur »

izacus wrote: post #81
dbspin wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how egalitarian it is. Having visited Geneva and spoken with many people there about the crazy high cost of living - it seems that most low wage earners survive by living in nearby French towns and commuting in to work. That's an economy maintained by the indentured servitude of non-native people.

The commute of most of those workers is usually less than half of what most rockstars of Sillicon Valley need to endure, not to mention that the public transport extends to border towns in France and is significantly better than the one in SV. Geneva lies directly on the border so those towns are way closer to most workplaces than Oakland is to San Francisco. The issue with Geneva is that there's no more physical spa…

The problem might be there are thousands of French, Italians, and other Europeans sharing the same Swiss dream while standing in the traffic jams. I doubt the rents by the Swiss border in France are at the "French level".

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#85

Post by tormeh »

ThePhysicist wrote: post #10

I wonder why they don't mention Doodle, which is probably one of the best-known Swiss-made software solutions. Personally I use Tresorit (end-to-end encrypted Dropbox alternative), which is also made in Switzerland. And then there's Protonmail of course.

Most of Doodle's open engineering positions are in Berlin. Tresorit seems to be mostly based in Budapest. Honestly a lot of companies with Swiss HQs have the bare minimum presence required to benefit from the low taxes in Switzerland.

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#86

Post by Nimitz14 »

corty wrote: post #51
Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is due to the mentality of the population and the risk aversion of the investors Can you please expand on those two points?

In Germany, the southwest, especially Swabia, is more conservative than the north. More tidy-freaks, stingy pennypinchers, more-concerned-with-the-appearance holier-than-thou, "we have always done it like this" and "you didn't clean your sidewalk properly, I've found a leave". Maybe "Kehrwoche" and "schwäbische Hausfrau" will yield sone entertaining google results. Businesswise, it is the region of small to medium fa…

I have so many issues with this.

1. BW is governed by the greens. You know what counties get the highest CDU vote in elections? It's not in the south, it's in Niedersachsen (Cloppenburg etc.).

2. Switzerland has different cantons which are very different. I live in the French part where the average person speaks three languages and 40% are foreigners.

3. I can totally understand swiss' people wish to be separate, this has resulted in them having by FAR higher living standards than other Europeans. Salaries are TWICE as high while taxes are TWICE as low. I'm underestimating that by the way. In the meantime Europe has fucked themselves with the Euro and massive migration which has depressed wages, good luck dealing with that.

4. There is HUGE amounts of funding compared to Germany. I'm in the process of that right now and it's kind of insane how many different options are for getting 5-6 digit sums. Got approved for 100k last week and applying for more.

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#87

Post by izacus »

durnygbur wrote: post #84
izacus wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The commute of most of those workers is usually less than half of what most rockstars of Sillicon Valley need to endure, not to mention that the public transport extends to border towns in France and is significantly better than the one in SV. Geneva lies directly on the border so those towns are way closer to most workplaces than Oakland is to San Francisco. The issue with Geneva is that there's no more physical spa…

The problem might be there are thousands of French, Italians, and other Europeans sharing the same Swiss dream while standing in the traffic jams. I doubt the rents by the Swiss border in France are at the "French level".

As someone who lived in both places I can easily tell you that Geneva traffic jams / crowds don't come close to what most employees of SF tech startups endure on their way to work.

To make Geneva as awesome as Silicon Valley, you'd have to prolong the jams and time spend on the road by about 2-3x and remove all the busses and trams.

Re: Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers?

#90

Post by amelius »

ehvatum wrote: post #55
skratlo wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope there won't be one, at the end, what good really came out of Silicon Valley anyway? The good parts can be equated to any other place where innovation takes place, be it in Europe or elsewhere. The rest is tons of crap and speculation.

Many of the items on this list seem questionable to me, but perhaps the ideas first nucleated there. From https://www.siliconvalleyhistorical.org/silicon-valley-achie... : • Long distance high-voltage transmission • Amplifying vacuum tube • First commercial radio broadcast • Long distance continuous-wave radio transmissions • Mobile radio systems development • Klystron tube and microwave • Radar • Electronic measurin…

Isn't most of the good stuff from the previous century, before the first tech bubble?
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