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Diego Maradona has died

theguardian.com

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Re: Diego Maradona has died

#291

Post by phreack »

mrleinad wrote: post #261
_ofdw wrote: post #36

Unpopular opinion: He was a gifted footballer but was a total piece of shit in nearly all other aspects of life including abusing women and minors, to say nothing of his complete lack of sportsmanship on the pitch. I hate that this guy gets lionized. To me it just underlines everything wrong with football.

He was flawed, but far from being a piece of shit. I strongly suggest you put aside your prejudices about him and try to understand both his lights and shadows. He was always on the side of the downtrodden and poor people everywhere. He never abused minors, that one was Pelé. And he always cared about his colleagues, you won't find anyone in football that says or has said otherwise.

There is photographic evidence of him partying naked with minors, corroborated by witnesses.

Re: Diego Maradona has died

#292

Post by emilsedgh »

watoc wrote: post #40
nahuel0x wrote: post #2

correction: the greatest footballer of all time.

Messi is probably already the best football player of all time. Maradona had more charisma and leadership though.

From a technical standpoint Messi is probably better.

But what makes Maradona the best football player in the world is that he transcended football. His football changed things. Brought pride to both Naples and Argentina more than a football trophy could've.

Re: Diego Maradona has died

#293

Post by PaulRobinson »

mellosouls wrote: post #46

A love/hate relationship with the English who I seem to remember voted the infamous Hand of God goal the worst, and the same match's blistering run and finish against them the best ever. Incredible talent, flawed man.

I have a team mate from Argentina here in London. We were talking about Maradona a few weeks back.

I thought when talking about him that if he showed up in London, there would be a mob around him, but it would be 50% people wanting his signature and selfies, and the other 50% would want to give him a piece of their mind about the Hand of God goal.

He probably wouldn't have been safe in London. As a Man City supporter, I know my estimation of Aguero was dinted a little when I found out he was Maradona's son-in-law.

Why? I remember that handball goal (it was not "the hand of god", it was deliberate handball), as being the moment in my childhood that I realised I could not trust some adults. Some adults - it became clear to me then - were dishonest. Even if they were brilliant, talented and otherwise seemingly worthy of respect, they were capable of cheating and not caring. To a young child (I was approaching my 8th birthday at the time), that was shocking to the core, and I cried, not just at England losing the game but that he - and an entire team, an entire country of adults - had cheated and felt fine with it.

Part of my childhood ended with that goal. I know I'm not alone.

I would have been in the group wanting a selfie though.

Re: Diego Maradona has died

#294

Post by Mulpze15 »

chrisseaton wrote: post #246
aloukissas wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly right. Football grew to be what it was from the slums in Latin America. It's always been human, analog, with all the faults this may have - perfect in its imperfection. If you've grown up watching the game, many of the memories are about some poor (intentional or not) calls -- offsides that weren't, handballs that were let to pass, penalties that weren't called, etc. And we still talk about these moments (or…

I can get that analog simile... but not the toleration of cheating. Wasn't the 'hand of God' cheating? He knew he hand-balled and he didn't own up to it. To me that's such a grave betrayal of sportsmanship. Everyone else seems to see it as a bit of a joke? Why play at all if you're going to be dishonest? Seems like if we're going to tolerate that the whole thing is corrupt and rotten and has no honour.

Because it is part of the game, hate it or love it. English players and fan where pissed, but Maradona got away with it, so respect. All of them would have done the same if they knew they could get away with it. Especially in such a big game.

Plus, it's just a game, nobody died. And it's fun to watch how a very small player beat a giant keeper through creativity and boldness.

Re: Diego Maradona has died

#295

Post by Mulpze15 »

billforsternz wrote: post #126
aazaa wrote: post #42

Not sure why this is here (don't follow soccer and never heard of Maradona), but the "Hand of God" incident is an entertaining read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_hand_of_God and watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ccNkksrfls On second thought, this was probably a hack of sorts.

It's interesting that you've never heard of one of the most famous people in the world. Probably a reflection of insular American media perhaps. It doesn't work in reverse, Babe Ruth was one of the most famous people in the world even though most people around the world don't follow baseball.

Most countries on earth don't really play baseball. In those, the huge majority of people have never heard of Babe Ruth.

Re: Diego Maradona has died

#297

Post by zorked »

gen220 wrote: post #275
chrisseaton wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can get that analog simile... but not the toleration of cheating. Wasn't the 'hand of God' cheating? He knew he hand-balled and he didn't own up to it. To me that's such a grave betrayal of sportsmanship. Everyone else seems to see it as a bit of a joke? Why play at all if you're going to be dishonest? Seems like if we're going to tolerate that the whole thing is corrupt and rotten and has no honour.

It’s a fine line, for sure. Cheating is considered by some to be part of the game, too. The referee is there to prevent cheating, and without VAR they are liable to fail. We do not tolerate cheating, but but we can not prevent all forms of it, only punish it when it is uncovered with some certainty. The litmus test for somebody’s football beliefs, of this generation at least, was the Luis Suarez handball against Ghan…

Luis Suarez's move was like sacrificing a queen in chess. He used his hand and accepted his red card.

"Cheating" would be being on steroids or bribing the ref or something like that.

Re: Diego Maradona has died

#298

Post by iso947 »

aloukissas wrote: post #244
zorked wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The limitations of the referee were a part of the sport, which was always about humans and stories, not the mechanical application of rules. That's why we are here once again remembering the memorable moment that the Hand of God goal was.

Exactly right. Football grew to be what it was from the slums in Latin America. It's always been human, analog, with all the faults this may have - perfect in its imperfection. If you've grown up watching the game, many of the memories are about some poor (intentional or not) calls -- offsides that weren't, handballs that were let to pass, penalties that weren't called, etc. And we still talk about these moments (or…

People said the same thing about instant (and not instant) replays

Re: Diego Maradona has died

#299

Post by prmph »

bulutsuzku wrote: post #10
s_dev wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about Pelé?

He played in a time where Soccer was almost amateur. See the criminal fouls to Maradona in the 80's. In comparison Pele was treated like a sweet flower.

I really don’t think you know what you are talking about. Pele played at a time when football was even tougher and harder tackling than in Maradona’s time. The fouling of Pele is what caused yellow/red cards to be introduced.

Re: Diego Maradona has died

#300

Post by prmph »

whoisjuan wrote: post #33
s_dev wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about Pelé?

It doesn’t even compare. Pele played in a primitive era of the sport where the existing rules (or lack of them) helped him thrive. Maradona played in an era that is more akin to modern football with stricter rules. Don’t get me wrong. Pele was great, but I doubt he would have been that great in modern football.

I really don’t think you know what you are talking about. Pele played at a time when football was even tougher and harder tackling than in Maradona’s time. The fouling of Pele is what caused yellow/red cards to be introduced
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