Live data from Hacker News

A Worsening Culture War

taibbi.substack.com

191–200 of 284 posts

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The viewpoint that both groups are just as bad or just as good for wage earners is a problem. It’s easily verifiable that Democratic states have better laws for wage earners, and have pushed for policies that benefit wage earners. They’re nowhere near perfect, but there’s no reason to pretend Dems and Repubs are the same.

both sides push for higher immigration and a globalized market, which have more effect on wage-earners in the US than any policy in "Democratic states". Imo you are missing the forest thru the trees, at scale they really are the same.

The evidence is that immigrants generate positive net tax benefits. The amount of immigrants who are founders of successful business would reflect that the impact is net positive.

AFAIK the idea of immigrants impact being a net negative isn't supported by the studies I have read.

I understand this isn't necessarily in line with the rhetoric du jour.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#192
post #129

The craziest part of this american culture war, to me, is that it seems to spill over to the rest of the world. My sister and I, living in Germany, have a very loving relationship, but we absolutely disagree on almost everything political and basically are stuck in our seperate bubbles. This gave us an interesting observation: 5 years ago it took us about two to three months, to have a fight over something that start…

One thing I've noticed is the whole sale importation of the BLM movement to the UK. I'm not overly aware of the issue facing ethnic minorities in the UK (I live in Scotland where it's almost entirely white with some small asian communities, which isn't to say there isn't racism just few people to discuss it with personally) but from reading around racism in the UK is very different to the US. Despite this we've adopt…

It has been profoundly odd watching UK BLM protesters (almost all of them white and middle class, of course) chanting "hands up, don't shoot"-type slogans recently.

British police officers don't routinely carry guns and therefore couldn't possibly shoot you even if they wanted to. In fact, there is an almost zero probability of anyone in the UK getting shot by the police unless they happen to be committing an act of terrorism or murder at the time.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#193

I agree with the central thesis -- we should be shaking hands with our neighbors and looking to take back power and wealth from the rich. But how do you get neighbors to shake hands when one believes that gay marriage is truly evil and another is gay? Both sides in America constantly fight bitterly over identity politics and it seems like many of those identities are irreconcilable with one another. I'm non binary an…

The key point is that identities don’t have to be reconciled. There’s no reason a hunter and a vegan can’t work together on common problems, even though they don’t like or particularly respect each other’s lifestyles. On many hit button issues, unfortunately including nonbinary people, we’ve just lost this common understanding that working with someone neither constitutes an endorsement of how they live nor requires…

There's also the understanding that working with someone doesn't mean taking an inappropriate interest in their gender identity, their romantic interests, their health, how they vote, and so on.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#194

This might be slightly offtopic but related to this article: what sources of conservative opinion would American conservatives on HN recommend to a liberal who genuinely wants to see things from the other perspective? Are there any right leaning bloggers/talk show hosts that you would recommend?

Russ Roberts brings a conservative perspective to his interview program EconTalk. (Russ describes himself as a 'classical liberal' rather than as a Conservative.) Though originally primarily focused on economics, the show's topics have become increasingly diverse in recent years. Russ' conversations with people he disagrees with are his best in my opinion and are always respectful and edifying.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The viewpoint that both groups are just as bad or just as good for wage earners is a problem. It’s easily verifiable that Democratic states have better laws for wage earners, and have pushed for policies that benefit wage earners. They’re nowhere near perfect, but there’s no reason to pretend Dems and Repubs are the same.

> It’s easily verifiable that Democratic states have better laws for wage earners, and have pushed for policies that benefit wage earners. The most solidly blue state, California, just enshrined a law to screw over gig workers and has among the worst housing crises in the country for average (and below) wage earners. Both parties are not equally bad, but the idea that the Democrats support working people is pretty la…

I also support ranked choice voting to break the duopolies between Democrat and Republican, but as you said, there is a difference between the two, which is what we have to deal with while we have first past the post voting.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America is colonizing the rest of the developed world. There are probably at least a billion people worldwide (mostly in Europe, but also among Third-World elites) who act American and are invested in America's issues despite never having set foot in the country. The internet has exacerbated this greatly. Just look at the BLM protests in Poland and Japan... or the Amerikaner "digital nomads" who are able to live in f…

Somewhat true. I have friends and relatives in Eastern Europe heavily rooting for the Biden or Trump (usually the less educated or even uneducated) and yet they have no real stake in it but it’s as if they’re voting themselves. And I think they realized that America sets the tone so whoever gets the power will influence them too eventually.

> yet they have no real stake in it

Diplomatic relations with the US matter a lot for the economy and trade - as you've seen in many countries over the last four years.

If you support an authoritarian/populist/homophobic ruler at home (in Poland or Hungary or Brazil or wherever), you also support Trump because he will support your country where a Biden administration will be far less likely to boost Hungary if it costs relationship points with Germany or France...

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#197

Essentially, in the wake of Trump, the political class is accepting the inevitability of culture war, and urging it on, as something preferable to populist revolt. In a rare inversion, the headline is more correct than the article. The wealthy (really, the elites: a wealthy small business owner has nothing to do with this) want culture wars because they want the middle and bottom fighting with one another, rather tha…

In my experience, the “elites” support better wage laws and worker protections. It’s the small business owners I know that rabidly vote against better protections for wage earners as it would lower their profits, and might affect their lifestyle.

What you call "elite" (affluent nice people who feel safe enough to be somewhat left-wing) is clearly a very different set of people than is meant in most other comments (wealthy guilty people who feel unsafe and unsustainable enough to screw everyone else).

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand “red/blue” shit. For me, it’s “improving quality of life for wage earners and affirming civil liberties / vs not doing the aforementioned” shit. A cousin in my family has a very valid grievance against business owner uncles that support politicians who don’t want to provide meal breaks or bathroom breaks. This cousin has to work 12 to 14 hour shifts, and eat standing up while working and sneak in b…

You could also ask why California has the worst-maintained roads in the United States, has mountains of trash littering the center divide and shoulders of its freeways, has huge numbers of homeless people living in slums just blocks away from some of the highest wage earners (and ostensibly highest tax payers) in the country. How does California vote? That’s not “red/blue” shit. See, I can play this game too.

I agree. Maybe it’s because of various SC rulings making involuntary committal to mental health institutions impossible, and the temperate weather that allows people to exist without homes more comfortably than other places. Maybe it’s other policies, or economic forces. But as you point out, there are real world affects of supporting different political parties.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#199

I agree with the central thesis -- we should be shaking hands with our neighbors and looking to take back power and wealth from the rich. But how do you get neighbors to shake hands when one believes that gay marriage is truly evil and another is gay? Both sides in America constantly fight bitterly over identity politics and it seems like many of those identities are irreconcilable with one another. I'm non binary an…

Not advocating prescriptives, just sharing what has worked for me in my limited personal experience. YMMV.

I keep the initial focus on them and I first introduce myself as a blank canvas with a known role between us. "Hi, what's your name, my name is yourapostasy your new neighbor/who waves at you on your 0500h run every day/who the mailman mixes up our mail all the time/etc." Then elicit details of "their story". People pretty universally love talking about themselves. Somewhere in that tapestry are common threads, and I build upon that. I've fortunately never met someone through this approach so odiously unrelatable we could not bond over something they care about.

After that, it is a matter of time and resources put in the relationship, as long as you maintain a Nash Equilibrium. The more time and resources, the more differences you both will generally tolerate; not a linear relationship, but everyone I've met has a "clearing price" to voluntarily associate with another.

I don't think in terms of "take back power and wealth from the rich", because there are too many layers between us for me to effectively address, and it doesn't scratch my agile itch. I instead have worked towards increasing both mutual assistance capabilities and self-sufficiency at the same time, and reducing my and others' reliance upon capital in an organic fashion. My position is that the capitalists (the 0.1%) have for all intents and purposes "won". They've "taken their 'ball' and gone home". The more I can decouple from capital "churn", the more I can save of myself and those I care for. There are some extremely broken systems (real estate, legal, political, medical, etc.) in the US that take unreasonable levels of capital to access for ordinary income citizens.

Autarky isn't my goal; it's long-term consistent survival at an "acceptable" standard of living without requiring a poll tax of capital out of reach of ordinary income households. Sometimes that takes some involvement with capital, but preferably a more frugal method is used when feasible, trading off convenience/time/etc. that I have more readily available. I don't hate capital nor capitalists. I'm just (in the scheme of a US reality where booking a billion in annual individual income doesn't even place in the top 10 income list) capital poor and working around it as best I can. Let it be noted in this discussion however, that there are many US citizens who would give their left nut to be in my "poor" position; many of us by virtue of being on HN in a well-compensated industry (at this time, I never take good times for granted) are in a similar position. But if you're talking about grand "take them down" terms, I've found I've achieved far more stability, sooner, by pursuing the above path than getting all pissed about a system I have neither the capital nor power to help change at this time.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#200
post #48

The craziest part of this american culture war, to me, is that it seems to spill over to the rest of the world. My sister and I, living in Germany, have a very loving relationship, but we absolutely disagree on almost everything political and basically are stuck in our seperate bubbles. This gave us an interesting observation: 5 years ago it took us about two to three months, to have a fight over something that start…

When we were middle school kids in Slovenia we used to have huge fights and “gang” beef over east side vs west side. We had no idea they were geographical, we just picked a side based on which rapper you liked. American culture is weird like that. We all consume it via mass media. I think it’s just an empire thing. During Victorian times everyone was trying to be a little British, or a little French, maybe a little G…

> We had no idea they were geographical, we just picked a side based on which rapper you liked.

No offense, I just find this hilarious for some reason. Kids can be so impressionable.

Post reply on HN