Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A Worsening Culture War

taibbi.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 284 posts

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#161

Post by notriskfree »

ck425 wrote: post #129
Roritharr wrote: post #9

The craziest part of this american culture war, to me, is that it seems to spill over to the rest of the world. My sister and I, living in Germany, have a very loving relationship, but we absolutely disagree on almost everything political and basically are stuck in our seperate bubbles. This gave us an interesting observation: 5 years ago it took us about two to three months, to have a fight over something that start…

One thing I've noticed is the whole sale importation of the BLM movement to the UK. I'm not overly aware of the issue facing ethnic minorities in the UK (I live in Scotland where it's almost entirely white with some small asian communities, which isn't to say there isn't racism just few people to discuss it with personally) but from reading around racism in the UK is very different to the US. Despite this we've adopt…

I agree the UK is not the US and we have different issues in the UK that we are dealing with.

Living and working near London I always assumed the increased ethnic diversity and global outlook in the capital led to less racism. I assumed it was the rural homogenous countryside that had more endemic racism. I guess we all misunderstand each other all the time.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#162

Post by dakna »

Roritharr wrote: post #9

The craziest part of this american culture war, to me, is that it seems to spill over to the rest of the world. My sister and I, living in Germany, have a very loving relationship, but we absolutely disagree on almost everything political and basically are stuck in our seperate bubbles. This gave us an interesting observation: 5 years ago it took us about two to three months, to have a fight over something that start…

I think what we see here is the result of social media A/B testing on how to get votes, and this playbook is now followed by the rest of the world.

In a democratic society, you have to influence the public opinion to stay/get in power. Propaganda is free, information costs money.

If the majority of voters are not willing to pay for quality journalism, you have to get them engaged by fueling outrage and projecting fear. It doesn't matter what side, as long as there are sides you can join and identify with.

Combined with the fact that American politics do have an effect on the quality of life in other parts of the world (trade wars and refugee crisis for example) and the working (aka non-capital) class suffers in most western societies, it is very easy to project similar fears and foster divisiveness.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#163

Post by lostcolony »

Aunche wrote: post #59
hprotagonist wrote: post #3

"That's all the media and the politicians are ever talking about, the things that separate us, things that make us different from one another. That's the way the ruling class operates in any society. They try to divide the rest of the people. They keep the lower and the middle classes fighting with each other so that they the rich, can run off with all the fucking money. Fairly simple thing. Happens to work. You know…

Virtually everything about that Carlin quote is completely wrong. There is no business in the world outside of news media (which includes the author) that makes or preserves money from the middle class fighting with the lower class. They'd rather the power classes get over their differences so they can make money off them. The top 1% in US pay more taxes in taxes than the bottom 90%. Before you ask, I do think that t…

"The top 1% in US pay more taxes in taxes than the bottom 90%"

And yet the percentage is lower. It really doesn't matter the comparative amounts; to put this to an even more egregious extreme, if the top 1% had 99% of the wealth, and paid 20% of that in taxes, and the bottom 99% had the remaining 1% of the wealth, and paid 0 taxes, it's not a sign that all is well, and the fact that the rich are paying -all- the taxes does not somehow make it okay.

And, no, pretty much every business benefits. The whole "keeping up with the joneses" mindset that keeps the wheels of consumerism turning is predicated on class distinctions. Our economy is dependent on consumer spending, and the obscenely rich become rich, and remain so, because of that level of spending by the middle and lower classes (meanwhile they have so much wealth they can't find ways to spend it without literally giving it away)

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#164

Post by lotsofpulp »

da_big_ghey wrote: post #144
lotsofpulp wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The viewpoint that both groups are just as bad or just as good for wage earners is a problem. It’s easily verifiable that Democratic states have better laws for wage earners, and have pushed for policies that benefit wage earners. They’re nowhere near perfect, but there’s no reason to pretend Dems and Repubs are the same.

Even if people agree with you on that, people care about more things than benefiting wage earners. Gun rights are a big deal for a large number of people. Abortion is a big issue for many people, as is immigration policy. Saying that, "One side is better on the things I value!" is startlingly blind to the fact that a whole lot of people don't value what you do, or value things in the same order. I could just as easil…

I agree with you. That was my whole purpose of replying to the person that said they are tired of “red/blue” shit. The political situation is not just colors, it has real life consequences on the allocation of society’s resources. If I want my daughter to be able to take maternity leave to properly breastfeed her children, it would behoove me to support a specific party. And the other party wants to spend resources on other things.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#165

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

Pfhreak wrote: post #134

I agree with the central thesis -- we should be shaking hands with our neighbors and looking to take back power and wealth from the rich. But how do you get neighbors to shake hands when one believes that gay marriage is truly evil and another is gay? Both sides in America constantly fight bitterly over identity politics and it seems like many of those identities are irreconcilable with one another. I'm non binary an…

The key point is that identities don’t have to be reconciled. There’s no reason a hunter and a vegan can’t work together on common problems, even though they don’t like or particularly respect each other’s lifestyles. On many hit button issues, unfortunately including nonbinary people, we’ve just lost this common understanding that working with someone neither constitutes an endorsement of how they live nor requires them to endorse how you live.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#166

Post by lotsofpulp »

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #146
matwood wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you're downvoted, because that sort of populism is exactly what Trump said and ran on. Like most things he said, it's also still 2 weeks away.

I think the saddest part about Trump's presidency is that he ran as an economic populist, but governed as a supply-sider Republican.

I don’t see why anyone who is familiar with Trump’s history would expect anything different.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#167

Post by willis936 »

javert wrote: post #90
willis936 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He makes specific points about the ways the rich have abandoned social responsibility and the knock-on effects. If you’re looking for a convenient lie, there are plenty of sources for that.

> If you’re looking for a convenient lie, there are plenty of sources for that. Don't be nasty. Engage in legitimate conversation or be quiet.

I am interested in legitimate conversation. Ignoring key points of the article while criticizing it is not a start to that.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#168

Post by sonotathrowaway »

hprotagonist wrote: post #99
1986 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, like many in the civil rights movement, King leaned heavily towards socialism and economic justice (see the Poor People's Campaign) in addition to, and as an integral part of, racial justice. But the Cold War and the boogeyman of Communism meant that that was weaponized against them while the struggle was ongoing, and whitewashed from their history as they became mythologized afterwards. Unfortunately things hav…

>leaned heavily towards socialism and economic justice... Not to be too on the nose, but another equally valid phrase here is “leaned heavily towards being a christian minister”, which he was. The religious motivations of the civil rights movement are ones we seem blind to, and the only reason i can think of for it is that when i, an american, hear “christian”, i have been taught think “republican suburban or rural w…

There were just as many religious motivations behind slavery and segregation as there was for it - actually more, in reality. In truth, evangelical Christianity has been one of the primary tools used to advance and justify segregation and slavery throughout western history, with some going so far as to equate rejection of slavery as no different than rejecting Christ. The predominant denomination of the south, Southern Baptist, was a denomination made because the northerners refused to appoint slavers as missionaries. The KKK has been a faithful supporter of Protestant Christianity. There was notable involvement in the abolitionist movement among northern Protestants, and civil rights activism among catholics, Jews, and northern Protestants - but acting as though that is in any way representative of American religion is missing 99% of the history. The major forces in American religion have always been opponents of civil rights of nonwhites, and it’s only quite recently, with the death and sanctification of MLK that they’ve been revising this history, and lauding MLK instead of calling him a reverse racist. Religion has always broken down among ethnic lines, the majority of American religion defended slavery and segregation as God’s Will.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#169

Post by remarkEon »

notriskfree wrote: post #147
remarkEon wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? The Cold War is over.

Exactly; when there was a clash of civilizations between a free west and a repressive soviet union; it made sense that Russia was the enemy. Now it is just a conflict between different European powers with varying levels of dysfunctional democracy and corrupt elites. So what is the basis for hating the Russians now; racism?

Yeah I’m fine with framing it like this. It’s just run of the mill geopolitical conflict. Calling Russians “the enemy” today is just shallow and lazy.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#170

Post by [deleted] »

Pfhreak wrote: post #134

I agree with the central thesis -- we should be shaking hands with our neighbors and looking to take back power and wealth from the rich. But how do you get neighbors to shake hands when one believes that gay marriage is truly evil and another is gay? Both sides in America constantly fight bitterly over identity politics and it seems like many of those identities are irreconcilable with one another. I'm non binary an…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN