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Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

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161–170 of 364 posts

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference between the State and the Private Company is that citizens vote for the State, and Legislators (the "paternalizers") are directly installed by the voters. The iPhone buyer does not get a say in the development staff or direction at Apple. My government intends to be "Of the people, for the people, by the people". Imagine if Apple every single year had elections at every level of their company! Vote for…

Elections != democracy. Or even representation. Apple has a certain awareness of public opinion and user mood. It isn't obliged to pay attention to either, and of course it also tries to control both through PR efforts. But if it ignores or irritates its users too much there are financial consequences. Meanwhile you can be sure forums like HN are monitored for sentiment.

> But if it ignores or irritates its users too much there are financial consequences.

I believe they very much know what their users want and are giving it to them

That's why they are so successful.

And what their users want is a device to support their paternalism.

I've never witnessed so many judgments against elderly or people that are a bit of techno illiterate (a bit is enough) as I have in discussions about Apple.

The baseline is always of two types:

- they are easy to operate, so even my [insert moms, dads, granpas etc here] can use them

- I would never let my [insert moms, dads, granpas etc here] use an open device where they can get viruses that then I have to fix (like fixing something for your family is some kind of punishment, they did it for me repeateadly when I was younger!)

And i think it's a bit naive to think that people supporting the idea that Apple knows better are in good faith and are not doing it because they like the control too and to be "influencers" (with many quotes) in their inner circles.

I would never think that my parents who raised me and made me what I am are incapable of understanding basic safety rules on the Internet once explained to them (safety rules that anyway protect them from something that don't kill people, it simply kills the battery of the device)

> Meanwhile you can be sure forums like HN are monitored for sentiment.

I'm sure they do.

One interesting other thing that we can be sure and I didn't think possible is that there are people monitoring this forums as well with enough karma to downvote, that not only downvote your posts in a discussion, but go back to yout history and downvote older posts as well.

It just happened to me, I had posts from yesterday and two days ago downvoted right now by the same people that downvoted me in this thread.

I don't know if HN can do something about it or not, but for starter disallowing voting on older submissions that users have not shown interest on could help (it should be easy to check which submissions users have opened, when, how many times and for how long to establish if they are genuinely interested in the topic)

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#162

The truth is somewhere in the middle, so while this article has some good points it is too colored by a strong dislike for all things Apple and borderline conspiratorial thinking. I don’t think there is anything that suggests Apple is going to stop people from installing Apps outside their App Store. Rather it is about making sure it is easy for regular users to get Apps in a safe manner without malware and Trojan ho…

>I don’t think there is anything that suggests Apple is going to stop people from installing Apps outside their App Store Of course there are things that suggest this, such as, that is how iphones and ipads work, and its become increasingly difficult over time to do it on a mac.

As in what, having to RMB -> Open ?

In what way was it made "more difficult" than that?

What exactly suggests it is "becoming (even?) more difficult"?

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#163
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah let us stop using Anti virus software on PC because it doesn’t stop every virus. It is never about elimination but minimization. Reality is that macOS and iOS both have much smaller malware problem than competing platforms.

I would disagree, GNU/Linux has less of a malware problem than OSX and at the end of the day they all run browsers which have their own issues. There's also a serious cost to the walled gardens. These things eliminate community maintained software which results in everything on your computer being controlled by a profit (often marketing) driven corporation. These always eventually die (taking your data with them) or…

>There's also a serious cost to the walled gardens. These things eliminate community maintained software

So, what's Homebrew, MacPorts, or the tons of Mac-native foss UI apps?

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#164
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am familiar with the saying, however, in this case, voting for government officials and creating a "demand" datapoint in markets by completing a purchase are not synonymous. When we go to the polls, we are literally making decisions about what you call "paternalism". Who should write our laws? Who should manage our criminal justice system? Who should regulate our industries? These are pretty direct decisions to mak…

You need to step back one more level from "The iPhone buyer does not get a say" to "The phone buyer does get a say"; buy an iPhone or buy an Android device if you have an issue with their business arrangements. "They are buying a shiny object that makes their brain give them the happy juice." That doesn't sound unlike many voters of all sorts to me!

I personally believe that it is naive to think that Apple cares what consumers think as they have enough money to take $0 from consumers for say 30 years straight and be fine. They are post-capitalist.

I understand that in an ideal market, a business has to react to demand. That in many industries, if you don't do what the customer wants, the customer leaves.

I do not think Apple operates in that world or by those rules.

Apple doesn't care what you think and they don't care if you buy their products.

Ironically, the only way you might get Apple to change isn't with your wallet, it's with your government. EU notching wins against Apple bad practices on behalf of Apple's European customers that their wallets never won them.

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A quick look at previous transitions shows... Classic Mac OS support (both 68k and PPC): OS X 10.0 was released March 2001, dropped with 10.5 released October 2007. So about 6 years, 8 months. PowerPC Mac OS X app support: First Intel Mac January 2006, support dropped with 10.7 in July 2011, so 5 years 5 months. 32 bit iOS app support: iPhone 5S with 64 bit CPU released October 2013, 32 bit app support removed in iOS…

Keep in mind that there is a much larger installed base of Intel machines than any of those other transitions. Apple is unlikely to want to alienate so many people. It will take several years for the percentage of Intel Mac users to fall under 50%. I see Intel support continuing for closer to 10 years.

> Keep in mind that there is a much larger installed base of Intel machines than any of those other transitions.

The OP asked about Rosetta2 though. How many Intel macs are out there doesn't mean much when fat binaries can support both. This is all about software moving.

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#166

Maybe it was Intel that had platform control all along.

Intel never had platform control. They had market control.

While they often had superior hardware compared to competitors, they had so much influence in the market that they could maintain market dominance even when the hardware wasn't superior.

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#167
post #58
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problems with this are more societal ones than technical or practical: It is impossible, for example, to install most popular apps for macOS without identifying yourself to Apple (and by extension the US government and military intelligence). You can't use the App Store (even for free apps) without an Apple ID, and you can't get an Apple ID without a phone number. (In many countries, you can't get a phone number…

The problem with this line of thinking regarding Macs is, well, there are just so many good alternatives to Macs. Now, it is worth giving consideration to the possibility that Macs will become so much better than the competition that they could become like iPhones, and develop more of a stranglehold over people's lives. As it stands now, and in the immediate future, I don't see this as a valid concern. There are just…

As for the average person, phones have already taken over, and things like laptops and desktops are mostly irrelevant except in the workplace.

We've already seen total vendor control there. There's nothing to suggest that those same vendors won't do the exact same things on all of their platforms. Already it's basically impossible to distribute unsigned mac apps.

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#168
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because MS can't let anything go. To be clear, this isn't really up to them. It's what market forces have dictated. Tons of old corp apps exist all over the place that necessitate this level of backwards compatibility.

One crazy thing I read about, was of a bug from some 3rd party company’s application. On some Windows update, the application no longer worked. But since Microsoft wanted to ensure a seamless transition during upgrades, they changed their OS code to perpetuate the bug from that application, to allow it to continue working. Kudos to them for doing so.

That's nice of them, but it does needlessly bloat OS code, specification, and tests.

In the long run, clear specification and implementation is a lot more desirable, than needing to support various hacks and workarounds for 3rd party software.

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#169
post #22

> However, that marginal improvement hardly seems worth upsetting the entire Mac OS developer and consumer software ecosystem. Really? This entire article is really dismissive, but this line especially struck me. I'm not convinced the M1 chip is some strange alien tech bypassing the laws of physics, but it seems clearly superior at its specific niche (single processes with an emphasis on low power usage, using fewer…

Having worked as a mobile app developer primarily on iOS, I quickly learned that many Android fans has an unhealthy obsession with Apple bordering on mental disorder. My Android developer co-worker has to use every opportunity given to rant about how superior Android was and how terrible iPhone was. Not to mention how downright evil Apple was.

> many Android fans has an unhealthy obsession with Apple bordering on mental disorder

I've also found many Apple fans have an unhealthy obsession with Apple bordering on mental disorder, but my anecdote is about as pointless as yours here.

There are also plenty of people in both "camps" who just want a device to go about their business and, as is their choice, don't care much beyond "what costs less" (however they might define that), or what their friends/family use or recommend, or maybe just what fits a very specific use case of theirs.

I've used both types of devices, and there are some things Apple/iOS does better and some things Google/Android does better, and certainly some things neither does well. The specifics of that will always be a subject of disagreement depending on who you ask.

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#170

The truth is somewhere in the middle, so while this article has some good points it is too colored by a strong dislike for all things Apple and borderline conspiratorial thinking. I don’t think there is anything that suggests Apple is going to stop people from installing Apps outside their App Store. Rather it is about making sure it is easy for regular users to get Apps in a safe manner without malware and Trojan ho…

The fact that Apple stopped requiring dev licenses to sideload code onto iOS devices makes me think that their effort to ensure that "typical users" install signed apps on macOS, really is about security and experience. I think its funny that most people here wouldent trust a website with no certificate, but for applications the idea seems to be considered abhorrent.

Apple still requires paid dev license for some entitlements, and manual approval for a few of those, such as CarPlay.
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