Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#131

Post by TheOtherHobbes » Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 1:18 PM UTC

criley2 wrote: post #110

newsclues wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that not apply to the State and government?

The difference between the State and the Private Company is that citizens vote for the State, and Legislators (the "paternalizers") are directly installed by the voters. The iPhone buyer does not get a say in the development staff or direction at Apple. My government intends to be "Of the people, for the people, by the people". Imagine if Apple every single year had elections at every level of their company! Vote for…

Elections != democracy. Or even representation.

Apple has a certain awareness of public opinion and user mood. It isn't obliged to pay attention to either, and of course it also tries to control both through PR efforts.

But if it ignores or irritates its users too much there are financial consequences.

Meanwhile you can be sure forums like HN are monitored for sentiment.

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#132

Post by Tade0 » Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 1:18 PM UTC

vvwvvwvvw wrote: post #67

Pesthuf wrote: post #18

I also think the marketing was genius. NOT labeling that graph they showed did exactly what they wanted. It was impressing the non tech people and the tech people ALL kept talking and talking about it - because it wasn't labeled. Apple's marketing is brilliant. It really gets the kind of people who think they are too smart to be marketed to AND the normies, all in one message.

I was wondering why Gamer Nexus (a very rigorous YouTube review channel) didn't sent a M1 device, while those Apple fanboy channels got it. Probably the dude would've torn the M1 performance claims apart.

Because the GPU there is okay-ish, but not amazing - not really suitable for gaming.

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#133

Post by IshKebab » Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 1:18 PM UTC

Multicomp wrote: post #16

> At some point in the not too distant future, old x86 applications will cease to run on Macs, as emulation support won’t run forever One thing I can credit Android some, and Windows a lot (even 10 with all its manifold privacy and user-hostility problems) with is that they are backwards compatible. exceptions to every rule, etc., but I can run all old versions of Android apps on an Android 11 phone, same for Windows…

> but I can run all old versions of Android apps on an Android 11 phone

Mostly. They've done a pretty good job of maintaining backwards compatibility but it isn't perfect. E.g. there's no way to access the old hardware options button anymore. You also get a warning popup if you try to run old apps.

I just tried running an old app I wrote and it freaked out a bit with the layout, jittering all over the place initially. But other than that it mostly worked.

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#134

Post by prawn » Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 1:19 PM UTC

criley2 wrote: post #122

prawn wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't you voting with your wallet when you voluntarily buy an Apple product?

I am familiar with the saying, however, in this case, voting for government officials and creating a "demand" datapoint in markets by completing a purchase are not synonymous. When we go to the polls, we are literally making decisions about what you call "paternalism". Who should write our laws? Who should manage our criminal justice system? Who should regulate our industries? These are pretty direct decisions to mak…

You need to step back one more level from "The iPhone buyer does not get a say" to "The phone buyer does get a say"; buy an iPhone or buy an Android device if you have an issue with their business arrangements.

"They are buying a shiny object that makes their brain give them the happy juice."

That doesn't sound unlike many voters of all sorts to me!

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#135

Post by my123 » Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 1:19 PM UTC

soedirgo wrote: post #92

terramex wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple no longer has to support OpenGL and it can just cut out relevant hardware on the SoC level, leaving more room for other things. Just for everyone who is scared by this statement - macOS on Apple Silicon still supports OpenGL and OpenCL, but it is emulated on top of Metal now.

Can you give a source for this? Also, is it still stuck at 4.1/1.2?

Yep, still OpenGL 4.1 and OpenCL 1.1. It goes through AppleMetalGLRenderer on Apple Silicon Macs.

You might want to look at: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Zink-mac... though. Maybe there'll be more interest for a direct OpenGL to Metal layer not built by Apple in the future, for having a newer feature set.

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#136

Post by matwood » Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 1:20 PM UTC

socialdemocrat wrote: post #68

The truth is somewhere in the middle, so while this article has some good points it is too colored by a strong dislike for all things Apple and borderline conspiratorial thinking. I don’t think there is anything that suggests Apple is going to stop people from installing Apps outside their App Store. Rather it is about making sure it is easy for regular users to get Apps in a safe manner without malware and Trojan ho…

Agreed. Apple could be lying, but they (top executives) have stated multiple times that the mac is not an iDevice. They have also stated they have no plans to only allow installs from app store, and they understand the value of tools like brew etc...They are what makes the mac popular with developers.

This could all change, but until it does articles like this feel a lot like FUD. Additionally, completely dismissing the M1 as a 'marginal improvement' shows a level of anti-Apple that is clearly clouding the authors judgement.

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#137

Post by gameswithgo » Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 1:21 PM UTC

socialdemocrat wrote: post #68

The truth is somewhere in the middle, so while this article has some good points it is too colored by a strong dislike for all things Apple and borderline conspiratorial thinking. I don’t think there is anything that suggests Apple is going to stop people from installing Apps outside their App Store. Rather it is about making sure it is easy for regular users to get Apps in a safe manner without malware and Trojan ho…

>I don’t think there is anything that suggests Apple is going to stop people from installing Apps outside their App Store

Of course there are things that suggest this, such as, that is how iphones and ipads work, and its become increasingly difficult over time to do it on a mac.

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#138

Post by jsgo » Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 1:22 PM UTC

socialdemocrat wrote: post #68

The truth is somewhere in the middle, so while this article has some good points it is too colored by a strong dislike for all things Apple and borderline conspiratorial thinking. I don’t think there is anything that suggests Apple is going to stop people from installing Apps outside their App Store. Rather it is about making sure it is easy for regular users to get Apps in a safe manner without malware and Trojan ho…

Hope so, but Apple implemented the wholesale Metal Only (not Metal Only unless you run a command in terminal) update which killed off using Nvidia cards for those of us who bought MBPs for eGPUing Nvidia cards. Considering Apple hardware doesn’t have a Nvidia option and people like me are probably niche to bring their own GPU (even though CUDA exists), it’d be highly unrealistic to think that Nvidia would rewrite their drivers for Metal because the affected users has to be quite small.

I hope you’re right, but personally, I don’t trust Apple to allow me to do what I wish anymore.

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#139

Post by terramex » Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 1:22 PM UTC

Tepix wrote: post #97

terramex wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bootloader/kernel signing can be turned off, there is even GUI for that if you turn off SIP first. Is it just like a jailbroken iPhone/iPad, but straight from Apple and without losing warranty.

No, you cannot turn off the signed bootloader requirement just by using the GUI. You need to run csrutil in a terminal after booting into macOS recovery.

Well, I should have been more precise. There is GUI for switching system into 'permissive security' mode that does not check system signatures [1] but user still needs to first turn SIP off using terminal in recovery mode.

[1] https://i.imgur.com/TsXQiHj.jpg

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#140

Post by gameswithgo » Mon, Nov 23, 2020, 1:23 PM UTC

jackpeterfletch wrote: post #104

socialdemocrat wrote: post #68

The truth is somewhere in the middle, so while this article has some good points it is too colored by a strong dislike for all things Apple and borderline conspiratorial thinking. I don’t think there is anything that suggests Apple is going to stop people from installing Apps outside their App Store. Rather it is about making sure it is easy for regular users to get Apps in a safe manner without malware and Trojan ho…

The fact that Apple stopped requiring dev licenses to sideload code onto iOS devices makes me think that their effort to ensure that "typical users" install signed apps on macOS, really is about security and experience. I think its funny that most people here wouldent trust a website with no certificate, but for applications the idea seems to be considered abhorrent.

Requiring apps to be signed is what most of us complainers WANT instead of having a store lockdown and rules about what programs we can run on our computers.