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Assassin’s Creed: Valhalla and the Unfortunate Implications

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Re: Assassin’s Creed: Valhalla and the Unfortunate Implications

#311
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most people that waste their lives with video games and "make you feel good" fantasies of this kind don't care about historical accuracy; it's not about understanding reality but about feeling good and "engaged". That's what sells. And yeah, the makers of samurai games definitely consider the marketability of their games with regards to races portrayed. Consider the samurai game "Nioh" which takes place in fe…

>Consider the samurai game "Nioh" which takes place in feudal Japan, has a white protagonists and includes a black character. You do know they were based on actual historical figures, right?

Huh, I didn't know that.

Still, I think it says a lot that they picked these particular historical moments instead of the probably overwhelming history of Asian people doing samurai-ey things

Re: Assassin’s Creed: Valhalla and the Unfortunate Implications

#312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, even back in the day, the arc from Warcraft 1 to Warcraft 3 was noticeable. In Warcraft 1 the humans were good Christian knights, healed by clerics, and the Orcs were evil devil-worshippers. By Warcraft 3 the Orcs followed an aboriginal religion and the humans were setting up concentration camps.

Sounds like warcraft 3 became more realistic towards humans then. Not much can be said about orc as there's really nothing to reference it to.

Knowing a little bit about Chris Metzen and his history, horde stands for the outcasts of society.

Re: Assassin’s Creed: Valhalla and the Unfortunate Implications

#313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a player you cannot do _anything whatsoever_ to change the setting and rules of the game: you cannot be nicer or less nice to the indigenous people, you have to loot and destroy their religious centers, you have endure having their religion mocked by your compatriots, you cannot convert to the local religion... You have to play a Aryan colonial invader who disdains the local culture and religion because your own c…

Spec Ops: The Line [0][1] puts a nice spin on just that. You have agency. Just stop playing [2]. It might just be the most harrowing game I've ever played. [0] - https://store.steampowered.com/app/50300/Spec_Ops_The_Line/ [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dzstxE_5Rc [2] - https://i.imgur.com/VSi8EOG.jpg

I would guess¹ that DayZ would also be just as, if not even more, harrowing. I mean, in DayZ you are playing against actual, real people.

1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7003821#7004805

Re: Assassin’s Creed: Valhalla and the Unfortunate Implications

#314
post #218
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've grown up in a period when pop culture didn't care much about cultural sensitivity. I don't think such a period ever existed. Hollywood had the Hays code, comics had the comic code etc. Popular culture always have to navigate the hangups and sensitivities of society. It is possible that these concerns were invisible to you because they corresponded to your own values. When they change because society changes, y…

> I don't think such a period ever existed. Probably not in the US, no. Then again, the world is comprised of many other locations and cultures. Even in the West, I'd say mainly predominantly protestant countries (among which the anglosphere as a whole) tend towards political correctness.

"Political correctness" is just what you call it when you notice it. You probably don't think of it as political correctness when there are no black cowboys, but that is just political correctness of another time.

Re: Assassin’s Creed: Valhalla and the Unfortunate Implications

#315

> > Inspired by historical events and characters, this work of fiction was designed, developed, and produced by a multicultural team of various beliefs, sexual orientations and gender identities. > This statement is making ... implicit [claims] (our diverse team means this game was produced in a careful, sensitive way) For everyone who isn't aware of the history of this statement, it was a way for the game to include…

[deleted]

Re: Assassin’s Creed: Valhalla and the Unfortunate Implications

#316
post #3

This is the problem with historic games. Either you acknowledge the bad and good things, or you white wash the past. As the author notes at the end: „As I have argued here many times, fiction is often how the public conceptualizes the past and that concept of the past shapes the decisions we make in the present.“

"Who controls the past, controls the future: who controls the present, controls the past… The mutability of the past is the central tenet of Ingsoc. Past events, it is argued, have no objective existence, but survive only in written records and in human memories. The past is whatever the records and the memories agree upon. And since the Party is in full control of all records, and in equally full control of the mind…

Orwell is accurately describing how history is recorded. Yes, all history, well-research history included. History is necessarily fuzzy and non-absolute. Historians work in conditions (social/political contexts) that shape not only what records are deemed appropriate to use, but also the means through which history ought to be recorded, presented and publicly disseminated. For example, Herodotus was a historian who relied in hearsay and myth to inform his largely oral depictions of world cultures. This was the accepted standard of his time. Fifty years ago, history was largely told as a series of 'big men' whose impact was absolute and only resisted by other big men. Today, history is largely social history, and uses lots of sources that account for everyday interactions, and the product is typically a monograph and a few blog posts or op-eds.

To get back on track, Orwell (in this passage and throughout the entire book, really) is basically dramatizing fundamental means of understanding the past, and the effect this has on how the future is imagined. Yes, it is about dogma, but no, the enforcement of dogma does not necessarily have to be as institutional or intentional as you seem to be suggesting. A fundamental aspect of social existence is that understanding the past draws heavily on our assumptions in the present, which in turn are drawn from how we view the past. Our understanding of the past shapes how we reify the world around us, which in turn influences how we imagine future possibilities.

See [double hermenutic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_hermeneutic), [reflexivity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflexivity_(social_theory)) and [postmodernism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmodernism) (please actually read about what postmodernism is, rather than relying on popular understanding of the term, which is very often inaccurate)

Re: Assassin’s Creed: Valhalla and the Unfortunate Implications

#317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not aware of any tests that distinguish “true” Christians from those merely claiming to be Christians.

I’m just saying that you oughtn’t be surprised that a lot of “Christians” don’t exhibit the ethics when you define “Christian” in such a way that it includes people who don’t try to adhere to the ethics.

> when you define “Christian” in such a way that it includes people who don’t try to adhere to the ethics.

There is no other way to define “Christian”.

Re: Assassin’s Creed: Valhalla and the Unfortunate Implications

#318
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but if the setting is the middle Ages it would be just stupid and lazy -- UNLESS there is some effort to bring some lore into it. The article we're commenting on does make the point that people of African / Asian descent being present in middle-ages Europe isn't unreasonable: "I will say that, as travelers and traders, it is not crazy that people with these backgrounds might be in England, even in the ninth century…

I'm not too familiar with that period, but North African probably doesn't mean 'black' ?

The answer there seems to be "it's complicated", and some cursory research turns up a whoooooole lot of what I'd characterize as "angry nationalist arguments" that makes it difficult to get a good picture of what might have been going on a thousand years ago.

Majority Arab with a healthy mix of black people seems reasonable, though.

Re: Assassin’s Creed: Valhalla and the Unfortunate Implications

#319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m just saying that you oughtn’t be surprised that a lot of “Christians” don’t exhibit the ethics when you define “Christian” in such a way that it includes people who don’t try to adhere to the ethics.

> when you define “Christian” in such a way that it includes people who don’t try to adhere to the ethics. There is no other way to define “Christian”.

Of course there is. The obvious counter example is "people who try to adhere to the ethics". But that's hardly important, the important thing is that you now understand why "Christians" don't behave according to Christian ethics--notably because you're defining "Christians" in such a way that it includes a lot of people who don't practice Christian ethics. Mystery solved.

Re: Assassin’s Creed: Valhalla and the Unfortunate Implications

#320
post #314
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think such a period ever existed. Probably not in the US, no. Then again, the world is comprised of many other locations and cultures. Even in the West, I'd say mainly predominantly protestant countries (among which the anglosphere as a whole) tend towards political correctness.

"Political correctness" is just what you call it when you notice it. You probably don't think of it as political correctness when there are no black cowboys, but that is just political correctness of another time.

A lack of representation isn't the same as political correctness in my book. Political correctness to me is the cultural elite's group-think, mainly in terms of moral judgements. Nothing about that group-think says it's taboo to have black cowboys, per se.

It sounds like you're using it more like a Zeitgeist?

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