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NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

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Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#281
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had several hundred years of a multipolar world when Europe ran the show. It was know for diplomacy, yes, but not for peace.

Well we have progressed since then a little, don't you think? What used to be solved by force is now solved by diplomacy more often. And large scale wars are less likely because of nukes. Otherwise we are going to a dictatorship on international scale. Fuck that

>Well we have progressed since then a little, don't you think? What used to be solved by force is now solved by diplomacy more often.

That transition happened at basically the precise point the world transitioned from a multipolar situation to a bipolar one.

I'm not saying bipolarity brought peace, but there's hardly any evidence that we've gotten any better at multipolar situations.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#282
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well we have progressed since then a little, don't you think? What used to be solved by force is now solved by diplomacy more often. And large scale wars are less likely because of nukes. Otherwise we are going to a dictatorship on international scale. Fuck that

>Well we have progressed since then a little, don't you think? What used to be solved by force is now solved by diplomacy more often. That transition happened at basically the precise point the world transitioned from a multipolar situation to a bipolar one. I'm not saying bipolarity brought peace, but there's hardly any evidence that we've gotten any better at multipolar situations.

I'll settle for a few major powers.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#283
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For context, Denmark has a population of 5.8 million. It’s as if Wisconsin had an air force.

But it have the territory almost 23% of the size of the USA to defend (greenland is part of denmark for defence purposes).

It doesn't.

It comes down to this - Denmark completely rely on the international community, particularly the EU and US for defense.

If that fails, and let's say hypothetically, Germans attacked, what can Denmark do? Surrender in 4 hours is the preferred play.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn't actually contradict anything I said though. You just let your personal feelings decide which identical half of the coin looks better. Don't fall prey to emotion just because the facts make you angry or don't fit the narrative you learned to love. All superpowers act from the same playbook. The more "super" the power, the worse they're willing to do to hang on to it. Look at history for a confirmation. Not…

You're still misrepresenting international law, though. It's not as ephemeral as your portray it, most of it is based on existing treaties, declarations, and agreements, and the rest of it is also not arbitrary but rather based on convention and customary procedure among states. There is a reason why countries like the US and Russia go at great length in arguing that what they do is not violating international law in…

> most of it is based on

Any specific existing treaty that forgives or wipes away a war crime? Or many. Despite the tens of thousands (conservatively) of dead civilians resulting from direct US military action, the US has not even been accused of a single instance of a war crime. Why do you think that is? Well I'll tell you, as someone who's been elbow deep into this for quite a few years of my life: international law is an esoteric, negotiable concept, it's a guideline, and it relies on consent and the power to apply your view. Kind of like the rules of conduct in a company. You don't slap your CEO even if they deserve it, and you don't go to an HR that is controlled by them. In the same vein, international relations is the "science" of agreeing on an outcome the stronger party wants and the weaker one can live with. International law is there as a framework but there's no accepted "Supreme Judge, Jury, and Executioner" who just presses charges, delivers a verdict, and carries out the sentence in the name of the victim or the planet, and everyone has to abide.

A strong enough player is untouchable, they can break a treaty and it's up to the others to decide the action... or let it slide. Who do you think has the power or guts to gather the necessary evidence and the international support to investigate the US for war crimes? And if it went through, who has the power to impose any kind of measures against the US? What kind of retaliation can they expect afterwards? Do you really think there are no perks to being the wold's biggest superpower?

Armchair international politics is a lot more fun than the real thing, I'll tell you that.

> Countries do not just do whatever they want out of a position of power

There is some give and take but for some it's literally what they do for a living. The US has openly pressured the EU to do things for decades, from supporting sanctions they didn't agree with, to changing Galileo frequencies to something that the US could more easily jam. And they've been doing it on every continent under threat of war, sanctions, or interference. It wasn't as a favor between friends, and it certainly wasn't in the spirit of cooperation and all those international treaties.

> the morality of states (whatever that means, to me the concept is meaningless) [...] so let's ignore that

A bit of reading comprehension goes a long way. That was exactly my point, that there are no good or bad, no moral and immoral/amoral countries. They do what they need to do to stay on top of the pile. Don't ignore something because you can't parse it. It's clearly the best way to form an uninformed opinion and then state it firmly, assuming you have an iron clad case.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Boeing or Lockheed Martin on the other hand, I'd be extremely surprised if our intelligence agencies didn't give them stolen tech. Assuming we’re talking about military tech. Why should they? What tech is the military and defense industry lacking in that would provide a battlefield advantage that other countries have? There’s only a handful of non-US weapon systems that can potentially compete with US weapon system…

I think the scope of your consideration is a bit narrow. Lockheed Martin probably isn't very interested in stealing technology from Sukhoi to clone and put in their own jets. However it seems quite likely that Lockheed has an interest in the particulars of Sukhoi jets, their weapon systems, radars and EW systems, and airframe capabilities, so that Lockheed may better design systems meant to counter those systems. Cer…

You also don't ever stay on top by stealing/copying from others. By definition that always puts you (at least) 1 generation behind.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#286
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So NSA has an algorithm to not capture Israeli communications, or if it does automatically deletes anything with a "Cohen" surname? I don't think what you are saying is even technically possible ("we spy on everyone except this small country"). Everyone spies on everyone.

Okay, my bad. So the USA does intercept network traffic and communications with them but does not have HUMINT against them. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-emirates-spying-insig... So the NSA monitors the UAE comms, but the CIA does not.

> does not have HUMINT against them

I mean, perhaps not on the ground in Israel (which amounts to a small technicality). They still keep tabs on Israel activity everywhere else.

Allies in general don't mind being spied on, as long as that intel is shared. For example, German security forces had no idea about the Hamburg cell plotting 9/11 in their country. They would very much wanted a tip off, even from an allied spy agency.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#287
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not everyone spies on everyone to the same extent. Because they don't have the capacity. And NSA doesn't steal Huawei IP on behalf of Cisco, quite the opposite.

> behalf of Cisco Cisco is not part of the military industrial complex. Boeing or Lockheed Martin on the other hand, I'd be extremely surprised if our intelligence agencies didn't give them stolen tech.

> I'd be extremely surprised if our intelligence agencies didn't give them stolen tech.

I'd be extremely surprised if any tech that is stolen is better than what they have / are working on. There is lots to criticize about America, their funding and continuous innovation in war tech is not one of those things.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#288
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have literally been caught financing Brexit and every major alt-right, antidemocratic, Europe-skeptic party there is - Germany's AfD, France's FN, Italy's Salvini bunch. Russia is a threat to democracy and an enemy of Europe, directly competing with China.

Well yeah, but the thread so far was referring to military threats.

Russia can't compete with any Western country in open warfare.

Cyber warfare and nation destabilizing by propaganda campaigns however? That is way cheaper, and the Russians have quite a history of such actions with the KGB. The side benefit is that, in contrast to a Russian airplane dumping Russian bombs on a city, the Russian government can easily deny that they are responsible for a group of hackers or an oligarch's "donation" to a far right party.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#289
post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, my bad. So the USA does intercept network traffic and communications with them but does not have HUMINT against them. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-emirates-spying-insig... So the NSA monitors the UAE comms, but the CIA does not.

> does not have HUMINT against them I mean, perhaps not on the ground in Israel (which amounts to a small technicality). They still keep tabs on Israel activity everywhere else. Allies in general don't mind being spied on, as long as that intel is shared. For example, German security forces had no idea about the Hamburg cell plotting 9/11 in their country. They would very much wanted a tip off, even from an allied sp…

You are correct regarding SIGINT, that allies don't mind being spied upon. What they do mind is when they themselves are being spied upon. Like Merkel's phone being tapped. Or the US recruiting on ground assets in Saudi Arabia.

Re: NSA Spied on Denmark as It Chose Its Future Fighter Aircraft: Report

#290

Would we expect them not to? "An important developed nation is picking a new fighter. Let's know nothing until it's over with." is hardly good stewardship of your own nation's trust and resources. It's the NSA's job to monitor who is friends with whom so policy makers can make policy. That's not to say the NSA should do anything they can. But it is their proper job to spy on non-Americans for America.

Fuck you.. literally fuck you.. We have entered into illegal wars for you guys, followed you in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libiya, danish soldiers have died, and gotten ptsd in the wars you started, handed over Pows in good faith, that then were tortured. And this is how you feel?.. that naturally the US should be spying on us.. fuck you!

Hey, please don't break the site guidelines like this, no matter how wrong another user is or you feel they are. I understand very well how frustrating it can be, but responding this way only wrecks this place even further.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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