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Dusk is a 90s style shooter from the mind of a teenager (2016)

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Re: Dusk is a 90s style shooter from the mind of a teenager (2016)

#81

Post by b0rsuk »

Loughla wrote: post #74
dx87 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's cargo culting, as much as it's a generation of gamers who were raised with the expectation of a "progression system". I remember back when EA was ridiculed for their statement about "giving a players a sense of pride and accomplishment" regarding requiring a long grind (or big payment) to unlock the most powerful characters in a Star Wars game. I've seen people beg developers to give them something…

>I think developers know how to make fun games, but I don't think most players want fun games because they've been conditioned to want addiction simulators with meaningless rewards. I have spent the last two or three years trying to find a fun android and/or console game (outside of some switch games), and I've never been able to put my finger on why the games in the app store, and many, many PC games are just not fu…

I was about to tell you to play some board games. I forgot about the pandemic.

Re: Dusk is a 90s style shooter from the mind of a teenager (2016)

#82

Post by Razengan »

Dirlewanger wrote: post #71
odessacubbage wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is one of the main things drew me into fighting games. the best of everything they have to offer is concentrated into a 90 second round. you don't have to sit through 10 minute corridor sequences or grind to the endgame to actually do something cool, you can play a first to five over your lunch break and walk away completely satisfied with the experience. > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLHOEfsWmGM

Since the mid 2000s when all the suits who've never played a video game in their lives started taking over AAA game companies, they've had this weird obsession to make games as "cinematic" as they can. To match movies as much as they can. Now that I think about it, it's probably an inferiority complex (don't really know why either since video games have been surpassing movies in raw sales for years now). Hopefully wi…

The Japanese game industry still makes a ton of video gamey games and doesn’t have the obsession to be like movies or anything.

In the West this is mostly carried by indie studios now.

Re: Dusk is a 90s style shooter from the mind of a teenager (2016)

#83

Post by torginus »

taneq wrote: post #62
torginus wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have so much to write on this, sorry if it comes off as incoherent rambling. The gist of it is I think the 90s really were a special time in computer gaming, and it's not just nostalgia you're feeling. I'll try to list what came to mind. - Just like the 60s-70s in music, product people had no concept of what a marketable game looked like, and were willing to fund much more riskier ideas. - Video game team sizes and…

> The gist of it is I think the 90s really were a special time in computer gaming, and it's not just nostalgia you're feeling. I don't think it'd be exaggerating to say that the 90s were, for 3D gaming, the equivalent of 1900-1910 for aircraft. The decade started with a few barely-functional attempts and ended with relatively polished and widely available products.

I'm not super familiar with the history of aviation, but by the end of the 90s, 3D accelerators became widespread.

This meant that 3D became available to the masses, but the only way you could render graphics was the DirectX/OpenGL way, with triangles,Z-Buffers,vertex/pixel shaders.

Unfortunately this meant that other techniques, like voxel raycasting, spline surfaces and other weird techniques couldn't be accelerated, and became much less prominent.

So yeah, the analogy stands that 3D transitioned from a period of whimsical experimentation to a "this-is-how-we-do-things" mindset in the timeframe, while a number of otherwise interesting solutions fell by the wayside.

Re: Dusk is a 90s style shooter from the mind of a teenager (2016)

#84

Post by everdrive »

Shared404 wrote: post #79
everdrive wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were a child in the 90s, Doom was very scary. I'm not sure if a modern child could be scared by it. >That is the 100% the core idea of Doom lore. That was created specifically in 2016 Doom. Prior to that, Doom didn't really have much of a story.

> I'm not sure if a modern child could be scared by it. I grew up on N64/Gamecube/XB360, and can confirm that Doom was not scary the first time I played it (about 10 years old).

It feels like a generational thing, too. My aunt and uncle showed me the 1932 production of "The Mummy," and it terrified them. They were born in the 40s, and so saw this movie in their teens. (and perhaps even later) I watched it recently, and can't even imagine being scared.

I'd like to think that there is both an objective and subjective aspect to this. On the one hand, maybe people just can't appreciate the older styles of art. On the other hand, after being exposed to modern violence, cinematography, and suspense, the old techniques truly do pale in comparison, at least in the visceral, emotional sense.

Re: Dusk is a 90s style shooter from the mind of a teenager (2016)

#85

Post by krapp »

Razengan wrote: post #82
Dirlewanger wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since the mid 2000s when all the suits who've never played a video game in their lives started taking over AAA game companies, they've had this weird obsession to make games as "cinematic" as they can. To match movies as much as they can. Now that I think about it, it's probably an inferiority complex (don't really know why either since video games have been surpassing movies in raw sales for years now). Hopefully wi…

The Japanese game industry still makes a ton of video gamey games and doesn’t have the obsession to be like movies or anything. In the West this is mostly carried by indie studios now.

> The Japanese game industry still makes a ton of video gamey games and doesn’t have the obsession to be like movies or anything.

And yet the latest Silent Hill and Castlevania offerings from Konami were pachinko machines. Same greed, just different market incentives.

Re: Dusk is a 90s style shooter from the mind of a teenager (2016)

#86

Post by jugg1es »

torginus wrote: post #45
fps_doug wrote: post #2

Just the other day I was wondering whether these old games were just so much fun because I was much younger and it was simply something new and exciting to me, or whether there's something else to it. You know, sometimes less is more, if the game world is just about detailed enough that you can make out what things are supposed to be, you have to let the creative part of your brain do much more work to fill in the bl…

I have so much to write on this, sorry if it comes off as incoherent rambling. The gist of it is I think the 90s really were a special time in computer gaming, and it's not just nostalgia you're feeling. I'll try to list what came to mind. - Just like the 60s-70s in music, product people had no concept of what a marketable game looked like, and were willing to fund much more riskier ideas. - Video game team sizes and…

I think your description is pretty spot-on. Doom was released in 1993. Quake 3 Arena was released in 1999. Doom had all the ingredients needed to make Q3 but Quake 3 Arena still holds up as an arcade-style shooter, whereas Doom feels like a relic of the past. I think that period of time in the 90s was really a remarkable time in the evolution of digital entertainment.

Re: Dusk is a 90s style shooter from the mind of a teenager (2016)

#87

Post by NateEag »

b0rsuk wrote: post #3
fps_doug wrote: post #2

Just the other day I was wondering whether these old games were just so much fun because I was much younger and it was simply something new and exciting to me, or whether there's something else to it. You know, sometimes less is more, if the game world is just about detailed enough that you can make out what things are supposed to be, you have to let the creative part of your brain do much more work to fill in the bl…

Most FPS games were literally consolized. Until Halo came around, no one could make a FPS work because a controller was too slow and imprecise. Halo's trick was to sloooow the action down. The chunky thing was why making levels for DooM was so easy. Prodeus (early access) also has easy to use level editor, but currently the game has some design problems - such as dumb and slow monsters. Those in DooM were also dumb,…

Halo also had aim assistance, as I recall.

It was subtle, but it was there. I remember getting frustrated with the fact that it dragged the target reticule towards center of mass, which made headshots trickier.

This is from memory of fifteen years ago, so I might be mistaken. I did play the original on Xbox obsessively, FWIW.

Re: Dusk is a 90s style shooter from the mind of a teenager (2016)

#88

Post by tjr225 »

jugg1es wrote: post #86
torginus wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have so much to write on this, sorry if it comes off as incoherent rambling. The gist of it is I think the 90s really were a special time in computer gaming, and it's not just nostalgia you're feeling. I'll try to list what came to mind. - Just like the 60s-70s in music, product people had no concept of what a marketable game looked like, and were willing to fund much more riskier ideas. - Video game team sizes and…

I think your description is pretty spot-on. Doom was released in 1993. Quake 3 Arena was released in 1999. Doom had all the ingredients needed to make Q3 but Quake 3 Arena still holds up as an arcade-style shooter, whereas Doom feels like a relic of the past. I think that period of time in the 90s was really a remarkable time in the evolution of digital entertainment.

I think Doom still holds up really well. I played it for the first time around five or six years ago and had a great time.

Re: Dusk is a 90s style shooter from the mind of a teenager (2016)

#89

Post by slothtrop »

thom wrote: post #14
fps_doug wrote: post #2

Just the other day I was wondering whether these old games were just so much fun because I was much younger and it was simply something new and exciting to me, or whether there's something else to it. You know, sometimes less is more, if the game world is just about detailed enough that you can make out what things are supposed to be, you have to let the creative part of your brain do much more work to fill in the bl…

It’s interesting to think about the constraints that bring about a level of self-narrative in games. Here you point out the graphics, and I think mostly textual games like the Football Manager series also evoke these feelings. But on the flip side I think a lot of modern open world games are a response to the very constrained paths and mazes of the some eras of first person shooter, giving players back the ability to…

Voice cutscenes everywhere is the worst thing to ever happen to rpgs. It slows the pace down to a crawl. Granted, there was some archaic gameplay design from the old days that felt slow too and has since largely been dispensed with, but I think it pales in impact.

Even AAA action-adventure games are now like watching interactive tv.

Re: Dusk is a 90s style shooter from the mind of a teenager (2016)

#90

Post by pbrb »

me_me_me wrote: post #46
phaus wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are on to something about the impact being forced to use your imagination has. Quake 1 had amazing art direction and each chapter had its own feel because each of them was designed by a different dev following his own ideas. I think perhaps the biggest reason why Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal don't feel "creepy" like the old games is because they are completely missing the point. The newer games are fun, bea…

Doom scary creepy game? People flipped out when Doom 3 ended up being low light horror game and not a fast paced shooter. Heck the lore of the Doom is that the protagonist is the 'Doom of demonkind'. Its the game where you are not locked in room with demons but they are locked in room with you. > you're an unkillable demigod that's basically dunking on armies of demons That is the 100% the core idea of Doom lore. Tld…

> Doom 2016 is quite literally a modernised version of Doom 1.

It's one of the best games I've played in a long time. Way better than Doom Eternal.

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