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Dusk is a 90s style shooter from the mind of a teenager (2016)

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Re: Dusk is a 90s style shooter from the mind of a teenager (2016)

#41
post #29

What I like about 90s shooters is how little fuss there is to get to the action. Doom, you launch it and can be killing things within 15 seconds. With modern shooters, it loading, loading, game selection, lobby, connecting, loading, cutscene, weapon selection, tutorial, realizing you need to grind to get better weapons, pay for better weapons, mission objectives, notified there's an update, enter your credentials, re…

My hypothesis is that many game designers have actually forgotten what makes a game fun. Games have become a cargo cult of sorts. Games have character levels, level ups and skill trees but why exactly? Does it make Project Warlock more fun? Certain game traits are replicated without thought. In my opinion games won't "grow up" as a medium if game designers let others shame them into implementing stuff that doesn't ma…

> Games have character levels, level ups and skill trees but why exactly? Does it make Project Warlock more fun? Certain game traits are replicated without thought.

Because simple gameplay loops like that keep people hooked to play them for longer. It's the cynical behaviorist approach to game design, and especially for online games that rely on people playing for longer times and/or paying for more content, that's a great way to extract money from players. Also, game designers are very much aware of it.

[0] https://twitter.com/Alucard__C99/status/1328887200944189445

Re: Dusk is a 90s style shooter from the mind of a teenager (2016)

#42
post #39
post #4

Just in case anyone is wary and is tempted to write Dusk off as just a cheap cash-in on some recent retro/low-fi trend. It really isn't - it's a spectacularly fun and creative game with solid mechanics. If you prefer a little more colour you can also check out Amid Evil or Ion Fury There's another upcoming game I'm keeping an eye on - Hrot. It's a solo-dev effort with a home-made engine written in Pascal (!) set in a…

On the same vein, check out Prodeus!

Yeah I bumped into it on (I think?) civvie11's channel. Looked like simple, over-the-top fun!

Re: Dusk is a 90s style shooter from the mind of a teenager (2016)

#43
Dusk is an amazing game. The gun, movement and general mechanics of the game are solid. The action is solid and the level and enemy design is great.

There are quite a few “wow” moments in the game.

For those that like these games I also recommend Amid Evil. The game is excellent and well worth a look for many of the same reasons.

Some of the other “boomer” shooters have been a bit hit and miss. Ion Fury was good but Tbh is a bit easy. prodeus is okay in bursts and wrath of aeon is solid but like the original quake can get a bit boring. Some of the other FPS games in the same vain have been "I've played it for a day and probably won't play it today".

These days I am playing Doom mods via GZDoom and there is soo much there now you could just play doom mods and never play anything else.

Re: Dusk is a 90s style shooter from the mind of a teenager (2016)

#44
If you like the look of this I'd also suggest Hedon[1], built on a modern version of the Doom engine and very reminiscent of Strife in feel that it's levels try to replicate a world that feels real with shops and houses etc, combat feels really good in it more tactile than Doom and the art style/world building is very unique.

[1] https://store.steampowered.com/app/1072150/Hedon/

Re: Dusk is a 90s style shooter from the mind of a teenager (2016)

#45
post #2

Just the other day I was wondering whether these old games were just so much fun because I was much younger and it was simply something new and exciting to me, or whether there's something else to it. You know, sometimes less is more, if the game world is just about detailed enough that you can make out what things are supposed to be, you have to let the creative part of your brain do much more work to fill in the bl…

I have so much to write on this, sorry if it comes off as incoherent rambling. The gist of it is I think the 90s really were a special time in computer gaming, and it's not just nostalgia you're feeling. I'll try to list what came to mind.

- Just like the 60s-70s in music, product people had no concept of what a marketable game looked like, and were willing to fund much more riskier ideas. - Video game team sizes and budgets were smaller, allowing designers much more leeway, as well being able to personally oversee the production much better. - Although Moore's law was a thing before and after the 90s, It's the advancement during that time meant that games went from pixelated abstract bleep-bloop affairs, to being able to render and simulate complex 2D and 3D worlds. - Feeding in to my previous point, people were literally writing the book on modern game genres, like RTS, Sim games (who thought that managing a city could be fun?), FPS, etc. - John Carmack, I literally cannot overstate how impactful his contributions were to the FPS genre. With the introduction of Binary Space Partitioning in games (first in Doom in 2D, then a fully 3D version in Quake), he elegantly solved occlusion culling, collision detection, and 3D level editors in a masterstroke, while allowing 3D games to run on the meagre hardware of the times. Almost literally every FPS game used a BSP to represent its levels for more than a decade (Unreal, Quake and Source sure did).

Unfortunately, the console era which came after, has put a brake to this breakneck pace of development.Console games, especially in the PS1-X360 eras, were dumbed down for both technical limitations, and gameplay: - Studios sought to appeal to the masses, who didn't always appreciate the complex mechanics. - You just can't make as sophisticated UI for gamepads as for keyboard/mouse. This killed of multiple PC genres on console, the RTS most prominent among them. - Due to the primary storage medium being DVDs/CDS in the console space, developers had to contend with their limitations, such as slow transfer speed, and abysmal seek times (yes even compared to HDDs). This meant that levels needed to be more linear, and player freedom had to be restricted. RAM sizes were also tiny compared to PCs of the time, further increasing the problem.

I'm sure there's a ton of stuff that I missed.

Re: Dusk is a 90s style shooter from the mind of a teenager (2016)

#46
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you have to let the creative part of your brain do much more work to fill in the blanks, x100 this. Quake 1 was terrifying for me even though the pixelated graphics are poor by todays standard because my imagination would fill in the blanks making things feel way more scary. Just take a look at these pixelated creatures. Coupled with the soundtrack from NIN and Trent Reznor and the gothic atmosphere they feel way sc…

I think you are on to something about the impact being forced to use your imagination has. Quake 1 had amazing art direction and each chapter had its own feel because each of them was designed by a different dev following his own ideas. I think perhaps the biggest reason why Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal don't feel "creepy" like the old games is because they are completely missing the point. The newer games are fun, bea…

Doom scary creepy game?

People flipped out when Doom 3 ended up being low light horror game and not a fast paced shooter.

Heck the lore of the Doom is that the protagonist is the 'Doom of demonkind'. Its the game where you are not locked in room with demons but they are locked in room with you.

> you're an unkillable demigod that's basically dunking on armies of demons

That is the 100% the core idea of Doom lore.

Tldr: The doom marine was entangled with 'hell' and at some stage was tricked that his dead son could be brought to life by a some demon deal - he came back as twisted undead. Doomguy got really angry and his anger propelled him to destroy all that is hell.

> They are some of the best single player games I've played in years, but I was there with Id since the Commander Keen games and this does not feel like a Doom game to me.

I have some mixed feelings about Doom Eternal as it sometimes feels like a puzzle and bit gamey. But Doom 2016 is quite literally a modernised version of Doom 1.

Re: Dusk is a 90s style shooter from the mind of a teenager (2016)

#47
post #21

Civvie covered this one in depth, it seems to be a great game. Oh, and you can buy it at http://waste.money which is hilarious. (Edit: link seems to not lead to the steam page anymore) https://youtu.be/KiuC1DcgIMo

The Civvie review of the original Shadow Warrior is hilarious. Highly recommended.

Re: Dusk is a 90s style shooter from the mind of a teenager (2016)

#48

What I like about 90s shooters is how little fuss there is to get to the action. Doom, you launch it and can be killing things within 15 seconds. With modern shooters, it loading, loading, game selection, lobby, connecting, loading, cutscene, weapon selection, tutorial, realizing you need to grind to get better weapons, pay for better weapons, mission objectives, notified there's an update, enter your credentials, re…

this is one of the main things drew me into fighting games. the best of everything they have to offer is concentrated into a 90 second round. you don't have to sit through 10 minute corridor sequences or grind to the endgame to actually do something cool, you can play a first to five over your lunch break and walk away completely satisfied with the experience.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLHOEfsWmGM

Re: Dusk is a 90s style shooter from the mind of a teenager (2016)

#49
post #29

What I like about 90s shooters is how little fuss there is to get to the action. Doom, you launch it and can be killing things within 15 seconds. With modern shooters, it loading, loading, game selection, lobby, connecting, loading, cutscene, weapon selection, tutorial, realizing you need to grind to get better weapons, pay for better weapons, mission objectives, notified there's an update, enter your credentials, re…

My hypothesis is that many game designers have actually forgotten what makes a game fun. Games have become a cargo cult of sorts. Games have character levels, level ups and skill trees but why exactly? Does it make Project Warlock more fun? Certain game traits are replicated without thought. In my opinion games won't "grow up" as a medium if game designers let others shame them into implementing stuff that doesn't ma…

I don't think it's cargo culting, as much as it's a generation of gamers who were raised with the expectation of a "progression system". I remember back when EA was ridiculed for their statement about "giving a players a sense of pride and accomplishment" regarding requiring a long grind (or big payment) to unlock the most powerful characters in a Star Wars game. I've seen people beg developers to give them something pointless to grind for because they won't play a game without rewards. I think developers know how to make fun games, but I don't think most players want fun games because they've been conditioned to want addiction simulators with meaningless rewards.

Re: Dusk is a 90s style shooter from the mind of a teenager (2016)

#50
post #2

Just the other day I was wondering whether these old games were just so much fun because I was much younger and it was simply something new and exciting to me, or whether there's something else to it. You know, sometimes less is more, if the game world is just about detailed enough that you can make out what things are supposed to be, you have to let the creative part of your brain do much more work to fill in the bl…

> I tried Unreal Editor a few years ago. The engine is really impressive, there's a ton of assets, high res textures, it's easy to create a natural looking terrain, but then bringing it to life is hard work and takes skills. Everything I built looked clunky, out of place, lacked details, lighting seemed off, it was rubbish. Minecraft fixes this problem. Everyone can build good looking stuff.

A lot of this is probably lighting. Lighting is hugely important for things to look good. Not just photorealism high-res whatever. Dynamic raytraced super expensive lighting looks good. Old school, fake lighting where everything is automatically lit is also good. Poorly configured lighting is very bad.

Minecraft has good enough lighting by default. Unreal does not. I don't care much about high quality graphics, but I don't think I agree with your hypotheses about lower quality being better for imagination though. It's just another sort of uncanny valley.

If you want the 1 minute laydown on good enough unreal light: * Put a directional light in the scene * Set it's property that says its a sun * Set it to mobile (so it doesn't try to bake things) * Add a sky atmosphere and set all of its light scattering colors to black (so it gets its colors realistically from the sun)

As a non artist, the lighting and atmosphere functionality of unreal is probably my favorite feature: https://youtu.be/SeNM9zBPLCA?t=932

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