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My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

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Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#221

Post by lishzen »

dijksterhuis wrote: post #29
echelon wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a bit like saying addictive drugs themselves aren't a problem. Technology is designed to trick humans into engaging with it. They use us for profit. It's asymmetric warfare. One or two parents, with jobs and responsibilities, against kids with peer pressure and billion dollar industries hawking them on, claws in their back and brain.

> That's a bit like saying addictive drugs themselves aren't a problem. I mean... They're not. They're inanimate f----- objects. They've never maliciously set out to cause someone harm because they're inanimate f----- objects. They don't have an understanding of the concept of morals or ethics because they're inanimate f----- objects. When I ingest them into my body -- that's when all hell breaks loose. They become a…

You know, technology doesn't just materialize spontaneously, it is made with a human purpose and that purpose (with all the subjectivity of everyone that participates in creating and fostering the technology) is imbued in those inanimate objects. When you use technology it guides you in its intended use according to its purpose, when you open a door by its handle, when you put your headphones on.

Phones and youtube specifically are made to make money by gaining and keeping one's attention. They achieve it with tactics that trigger addiction. Some people become addicts, some not so much, but if you have a human brain you will feel the pull to abuse them.

In the case of phones and youtube the "mythical they" are the ones who profit from them and don't care about the effects of their tactics on the users. Maybe it is not warfare but it sure is asymmetric.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#222

Post by anoncake »

mlindner wrote: post #198
ttul wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have done home schooling and regular public schooling. If you can afford to have a parent be at home full time with your kids, you are amongst the wealthiest in the world. You are fortunate.

If they're buying iPhones for their kids like the original author's post they're also wealthy. So your point is moot.

Or bad with money.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#224

Post by jjk166 »

minusthebrandon wrote: post #217
jjk166 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if someone at the bar buys you a drink and you're not totally sure why, you can go over to them and say "Hey, I don't understand this message. Can you explain it to me?" You posses the social skill to ask for clarification, you lack the social skill of flirting. That I can have someone translate to and from Urdu for me does not mean I have the social skill required to communicate via Urdu. Likewise, that your par…

Flirting and speaking a foreign language are a false equivalence to not knowing how to e-mail or use social media. Whether using your definition or another, my point still stands that social media does not lead to GREATER social skills than previous generations possessed. Not being skilled in ALL aspects of socialization isn't the same thing as lacking social skills in general.

I really see no difference between trying to determine if someone is in to you based on how long they emphasize the y in hey versus trying to determine if someone is into you based on the number of times they repeat the letter y in heyyy.

I never claimed that social media leads to objectively greater social skills, there's no reason why being able to write a great email is inherently superior to being able to write a great telegraph message. However, one skill is undeniably more useful in this day and age. It does not matter if you call it a social skill or a technological skill, the fact remains that there are people who know how to communicate effectively via social media, and those who don't, and just because you are comfortable in the latter category does not mean your daughter will be too.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#225

Post by chordalkeyboard »

Turing_Machine wrote: post #212
parksy wrote: post #45

My dad smashed my computer around the laundry (where the computer lived) with my cricket bat because I was "playing games" instead of studying. "playing games" was using assembly language and pascal with s3m libraries to program a game. With my kids I've felt the rise of anger when they want to be autonomous and pursue their own interests. I mean, I was taught that parenthood is subjugation. But just like my dad coul…

Sorry to hear this, my friend. There are some real princes out there. My stepfather refused to let me take piano lessons, because those would turn you into a "sissy" (e.g., Liberace). Yeah, I'm still angry about it.

Its probably not too late to take piano lessons. You’re not alone.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#226

Post by gnicholas »

I wonder how much parental behavior can improve outcomes, either in the short run or long run. Do kids pick up on parents' habits and mimic them? If a family had strict rules that even parents followed, would kids be more likely to feel that the rules are fair and/or appropriate.

Even if this doesn't work in the short run, it's possible that after kids grow up, they would adopt healthier habits based on what they saw their parents doing when they were kids. I have seen similar things happen with eating habits, where kids initially rejected parental rules but as adults they adopted healthy habits that their parents modeled for them when they were growing up.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#227

Post by notJim »

NuSkooler wrote: post #206
sergiomattei wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blanket statements are easy but reality is much more complex. iSH, code learning apps, Codecademy via the iPad browser, iBooks, Library Genesis for getting any book in existence for free, Duolingo, cloud coding. I could go on... There's many, many ways of learning through these devices.

> There's many, many ways of learning through these devices. You can artificially lock down the device and expose only such things, but default mode is YouTube and Roblox type stuff.

Kids make games in roblox (edited to add: they learn how on YouTube)

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#228

Post by harry8 »

Aerroon wrote: post #156
sequoia wrote: post #87

Buried lede: > My daughter doesn’t return home from school until 6:30 pm and still has to eat, bathe, and get ready for bed. Perhaps it is not just the iPhone, but school taking up 100% of her time, energy, and attention that is preventing her from pursuing creative interests? As a homeschooling parent whose kids have been in school at times, I see this first hand. School is exhausting . Between rising unnaturally ea…

Maybe the phone is an escape? Getting home at 6:30 pm plus homework means that school-related things are a 12+ hour day. That's a pretty rough schedule for anyone. Imagine if you had a 12 hour work schedule every day. Now imagine what you would feel, if you didn't have a choice to be there. You had to be there whether you liked it or not. That's what school is like for a lot of kids. Making it extra long probably doe…

Imagine who in society doesn't need to imagine 12+ hours of work and has to be there, like it or not.

What proportion, do you think? How would one firm up the estimate with hard data?

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#229

Post by shakezula »

I have two questions:

1) How much of this behavior is just a young child growing up and clashing with their parents? The author seems to blame the iPhone for their personality change, but it just seems to me that it coincides with a common period of rapid emotional and physical growth.

2) As others have pointed out - why not try and find a better medium between technology and creativity? Seems to me this is just the classic battle between tradition and technology.

Re: My daughter was a creative genius, and then we bought her an iPhone

#230

Post by notJim »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #199
sergiomattei wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blanket statements are easy but reality is much more complex. iSH, code learning apps, Codecademy via the iPad browser, iBooks, Library Genesis for getting any book in existence for free, Duolingo, cloud coding. I could go on... There's many, many ways of learning through these devices.

Is anything you listed even remotely on the same level as "assembly language and pascal with s3m libraries to program a game", what does Duolingo have to do with being able to understand and prod the workings of the machine in your hand. Still a locked down black box designed around attention algorithms and I'm getting tired of pretending it's not.

I agree, unless you're typing raw hex codes into the instruction pipeline, you're not really programming. And truthfully, I'd prefer manipulating gates by hand. Otherwise, how do you know you're really talking to the machine.
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