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Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

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Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#541

Post by paulpan »

tabs_masterrace wrote: post #280
pja wrote: post #173

I’m seeing a lot of positive comments on HN about this: to me it seems to be purely a cynical piece of PR on Apple’s part. They hope to significantly reduce the pressure on politicians to take a close look at their App store practices by significantly reducing the absolute number of developers suffering the full impact whilst taking the minimum possible hit to their revenue. This has nothing to do with “doing the rig…

Are you kidding me? This is great news for indies and small companies, to which I count myself, and I will be making 15% more money. Dude, I'm really happy reading this announcement today, thanks Apple, what else is there to say? I think some of you might have trust issues, and are stuck in a spiral of negativity, it's getting a bit weird. Now Google please follow!

Not the OP but I think your reaction is exactly what Apple is hoping for here - contentment with more money in your pocket.

But it also shows behavioral economics at work: developers have been so anchored to the 30% split that this change looks amazing, but why isn't the 15% the norm regardless of revenue size? Effectively Apple is "settling" or "bribing" small developers with this change, so they aren't compelled to join the antitrust movement led by bigger players.

From a business standpoint, Apple is trying to splinter the critics into various factions. A bit extreme analogy but it's akin to inciting conflict within the opposition - actually almost textbook monopolistic behavior. Segment the market by offering tiered incentives.

This reminds me a bit of the Netflix stance on net neutrality. They were for until they grew big enough and could pay off ISPs. ISPs essentially created the proverbial moat for Netflix.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#542

Post by breakfastduck »

syshum wrote: post #272
breakfastduck wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats fair but kinda like saying a food product producer is already providing value to a store by producing goods but not paying the store any money to host their product. It doesn't really make sense.

I am not sure what you said makes any sense... The food product producer is not selling to me directly, they sell to the store, who then sells to me. Apple is not selling me the app, they are very clear about this, my relationship is with the App Developer, they are just a "payment processor" So comparing the App Store to traditional retail store is no where near a proper analogy

It is more like a market than a store. I buy from the stall / seller rather than the Market, but Market stalls still pay rent to the market to set up shop.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#543

Post by breakfastduck »

heavyset_go wrote: post #526
breakfastduck wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but many of the larger players who are willing to go to war use the 'its not fair on smaller developers' argument against them. This really slaps down the ability to use that.

No it doesn't. Apple and Google have stood on the neck of the mobile app distribution market for over a decade, and small developers have suffered for it. This change doesn't address the problem at all.

I'm not saying it addresses the problem, I'm saying it gives their competitors less ammunition against them in court.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#544

Post by grishka »

draugadrotten wrote: post #454
grishka wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't have it both ways. Either it's as closed as iOS and apps can't be pirated, or it's as open as Android and it's possible to pirate apps. Restrictions on what can be installed and user's ultimate control of their own device are mutually exclusive. That said, I'd choose to have control, even as an app developer. Piracy is a fact of life.

There many benefits of the closed model: One benefit is that if an app is successful but expensive, it opens up for competitors to undercut by price. With piracy, many users would rather pirate the expensive #1 game than to run the lower cost #1938 game. With such a closed system, users will choose cheaper applications and it will help #1938 to rise to #45.This is very good for indie developers. Another benefit is fo…

In practice, I don't think the discovery aspect of app stores matters that much for anything but utility apps where you would search stuff like "docx viewer". It does matter for all kinds of apps when they feature something, and that's about it. Almost all developers have their own ways to drive traffic to their apps.

I mean, I've been making Android apps since 2011, and I think that the role of app stores themselves is vastly overrated too. They have their place and they're nice to have, sure, but it's silly that OS vendors are allowed to have their own ones and either demote or outright ban anything that doesn't go through them. The transition to "always-online" was supposed to be more empowering, not more limiting.

"But people would install malware..."

It's okay for new technology to require education before one can make use of it. It's about time we get over it and stop treating users like children.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#545

Post by ROARosen »

enos_feedler wrote: post #533
ROARosen wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Both Google and, especially, Apple have spent millions of dollars, hours, and effort to create their respective App Stores and the people and tools needed to run them Both Google and especially Apple have also spent millions of resources and money, making sure they are the only app store in use (by default). They could have spent some of those millions creating a set of rules for independent app marketplaces to be…

I love how we suddenly have better ideas for how the most successful public company should allocate their resources to serve their customers (developers are second tier, sorry). We sometimes forget they are sitting on mountains of money because they execute good company decision making, not because they are doing weird things to protect a monopoly. Like there is some meeting near the top between execs happening where…

With this rationale no monopoly should ever be investigated, broken up, etc.

The whole problem with monopolies is that they actually harm the consumer by protecting their monopoly from encroachment by someone else. So yes people really think decisions are being made by a monopoly to protect their monopoly (and their profits). A chunk of those billions they have is actually money generated by these monopolistic practices.

It's juvenile to imagine them sitting at board meeting and discussing "How can we protect our monopoly?", that's like saying the NSA is discussing by board meetings "how can we further invade everyones privacy?". But they most definitely are discussing how they can protect their market share and how to edge out competition.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#546

Post by sgerenser »

ody4242 wrote: post #276
Sodman wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've barely been able to get people to stop referring to all Android devices as "Droids". The average person doesn't even know about alternate app stores, yet alone have the will to seek them out, install them, search for an app, and then pay for it (likely having to enter payment info this time). You might as well tell developers to release their apps on the dark web. I'm sure you can release niche apps on these st…

Well, there is Amazon Appstore for Android, where you can buy digital goods (apps and games as well) on an Android device. Idk if the Amazon Appstore is available for IOS with the same terms. Can you buy IOS apps via Amazon Appstore on an IOS device?

Apple does not allow third party app stores on iOS. There's at least one third party store that you can side-load using developer tools but it's definitely not something the average user is aware of.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#548

Post by anderspitman »

pja wrote: post #173

I’m seeing a lot of positive comments on HN about this: to me it seems to be purely a cynical piece of PR on Apple’s part. They hope to significantly reduce the pressure on politicians to take a close look at their App store practices by significantly reducing the absolute number of developers suffering the full impact whilst taking the minimum possible hit to their revenue. This has nothing to do with “doing the rig…

So you're saying it's a smart business decision?

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#549

Post by eecc »

drenvuk wrote: post #539
eecc wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, you should do your research before reaching for your guns. In Italy for example it’s a well known, scandalous situation that’s been going on for years. Apologies for the Italian links but that’s all I could find for now: https://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/2020/05/14/frutta-e-verdura... https://youtu.be/29OYrFOYkTg

excuse me for my lack of Italian but is there any way you can find something in English or possibly outline what is happening?

I’ll quickly try: there are a handful of big supermarket chains - the article and the video reportage mention Coop, Conad, Gruppo Selex, Esselunga, Eurospin - that set prices and mandatory discounts. They essentially don’t compete, and fairness is only left to goodwill (e.g. Coop is historically tied to the Left and operates under a more worker-friendly CoC. In theory.)

Access to consumer markets is either via a looooong chain of small, inefficient and parasitic intermediaries or via the GDO, the logistics organizations of these few supermarket chains.

So the farmers are squeezed, they fall in debt and go bankrupt, or sell out to big landlords; and both tend to employ illegal immigrants under inhuman working conditions to meet the prices set by the aforementioned.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#550

Post by fakedang »

eecc wrote: post #287
fakedang wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wish I could downvote this for fake info, but I'm too new. Distributors make a pittance for a relatively risky bet on delivering fruit and veggies. Margins are usually below 10%, often close to 5%, and definitely nowhere near 30%. On top of that, there's the added risk of damage happening to the goods in transit and storage, voiding the entire profit. Google and Apple make money by sitting on their asses and taking a…

Nope, you should do your research before reaching for your guns. In Italy for example it’s a well known, scandalous situation that’s been going on for years. Apologies for the Italian links but that’s all I could find for now: https://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/2020/05/14/frutta-e-verdura... https://youtu.be/29OYrFOYkTg

And I could play disingeniously and claim a much higher percentage in my home country, where distributors routinely make much much more. But again, that would be disingenuous, since our environment for comparison is the US market and not the Indian or Italian market, both of which are rife with corruption. I could counter with a German or a British example which would just as much counter your point.
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