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Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

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Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#531

Post by admax88q »

TheKarateKid wrote: post #431
kmeisthax wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Provide an officially-sanctioned way to install alternative software sources. macOS has that; Apple will even certify third party developers so that the system can still validate software outside of the Mac App Store. That kind of security model would be perfect for iOS and would moot pretty much all the substantive parts of Epic's complaint.

> Apple will even certify third party developers so that the system can still validate software outside of the Mac App Store. That kind of security model would be perfect for iOS and would moot pretty much all the substantive parts of Epic's complaint. That's a really good point. Why isn't the dev community talking about getting Apple to do this on iOS? It would allow sideloading while maintaining security, and a som…

Because the dev community seems to think that you shouldn't be allowed to go to the bathroom without checking in with Apple first, for "security."

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#533

Post by enos_feedler »

ROARosen wrote: post #415
dpkonofa wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's a fair assessment at all. Both Google and, especially, Apple have spent millions of dollars, hours, and effort to create their respective App Stores and the people and tools needed to run them. There's a reason why there's a difference, in the real world, between a Walmart and a Target or Sprouts. Likewise, there's a difference between Apple, Google, or anyone else's App Stores. The main differen…

> Both Google and, especially, Apple have spent millions of dollars, hours, and effort to create their respective App Stores and the people and tools needed to run them Both Google and especially Apple have also spent millions of resources and money, making sure they are the only app store in use (by default). They could have spent some of those millions creating a set of rules for independent app marketplaces to be…

I love how we suddenly have better ideas for how the most successful public company should allocate their resources to serve their customers (developers are second tier, sorry). We sometimes forget they are sitting on mountains of money because they execute good company decision making, not because they are doing weird things to protect a monopoly. Like there is some meeting near the top between execs happening where someone goes "lets do X!" and another exec replies "no but doing X would harm our monopoly, we cant' do that". Do people think decisions are really being actively made to protect a monopoly?

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#534

Post by pja »

forest_dweller wrote: post #355
Dylan16807 wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is close enough. It's really not. The difference is the part that actually motivates you to pay an affiliate. > We have already established it is on other stores. When you look at other services that are just doing payment/download, it's far cheaper than 30%. > You can choose not to do business with Apple. That doesn't disagree with what I said, which is that you can't choose the type of relationship with Apple.…

> When you look at other services that are just doing payment/download, it's far cheaper than 30%. Except if you look at the link that compares all similar stores. It is around about 30% except for EPIC. EPIC can afford such a low rate because they are flush with cash from Fortnite and Unreal Engine dominates the professional game engine market. EPIC are trying to buy their way into the market, if it works then steam…

My personal comparison is between the HumbleBundle store and the HumbleBundle payments widget.

The rake on the former, where HumbleBundle brings the customer? 25%

The rake on the latter, where the game dev embeds the widget on their own website & HB handles the payments infrastructure for them? 5%

For App devs able to drive customer engagement directly themselves, Apple is effectively taking an extra ~20% of profit for themselves. Apple is treating every sale as if they were the ones delivering the customer. For $1 shovelware Apps this seems fair enough. For franchises where the Dev has an already established customer base through their own marketing efforts it seems completely egregious.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#535

Post by stale2002 »

forest_dweller wrote: post #187
Dylan16807 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can they come from anywhere other than the actual store? If I have a link on my site that takes a customer directly to the store page, and they buy it, then Apple did nothing at all to earn an "affiliate" level payout. They didn't drive any traffic. Or if the customer puts in the exact app name and buys it. > In any event that is a different issue. It's very relevant to whether 30% is reasonable. Apple acts as a le…

> If I have a link on my site that takes a customer directly to the store page, and they buy it, then Apple did nothing at all to earn an "affiliate" level payout. They didn't drive any traffic. The store provides you visibility through promotion on the store page, being listed in search and taking payment for the purchase. This would be no different than if a boxed piece of software was in a brick and mortar retaile…

The anti-competitive and illegal behavior that Apple is doing is preventing alternative app stores from being on the IPhone.

This actions prevents other app stores from undercutting apple's prices.

Epic's app store, for example, would take 12%, instead of 30%. This would help consumers if they were allowed to use it.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#536

Post by threepio »

pja wrote: post #173

I’m seeing a lot of positive comments on HN about this: to me it seems to be purely a cynical piece of PR on Apple’s part. They hope to significantly reduce the pressure on politicians to take a close look at their App store practices by significantly reducing the absolute number of developers suffering the full impact whilst taking the minimum possible hit to their revenue. This has nothing to do with “doing the rig…

Unfortunately — because I am a longtime Apple user & developer — I have to agree that this is a cynical gesture designed to deflect regulatory scrutiny.

Moreover, I expect that this announcement is mostly paving the way for Apple to force all Mac OS apps to be distributed via the Mac App Store (as they do on iOS).

The optimist in me doesn't want to believe it. But this is probably consistent with Apple's economic incentives. Especially because the major role of Macs in the world is to provide a platform for developing iOS apps.

This week I ordered an M1 Macbook Air. Not because I really need it, but because a couple years from now I will be happy I have a machine that can run Big Sur, which will be remembered as the least restrictive OS of the Apple Silicon era.

Apple is the biggest corporation in the world. We can like their products, but we shouldn't give them more credit than, say, ExxonMobil or Foxconn or Goldman Sachs. They will make choices based on what creates the most profit, nothing more. That's not cynicism; it's why corporations exist at all.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#537

Post by test001only »

zaroth wrote: post #405
whimsicalism wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A store is allowed to charge what it wants for its products. A store is allowed to set the policies that it wants for the goods that it sells in its own stores. A store is allowed to block you from using any other store? These aren't natural continuations or logical extensions of meatspace, stop pretending they are.

This is literally not what’s happening. The iPhone is their product. If you don’t want to use their products and their store you do not have to. Buy a different device. There are plenty . Apple doesn’t get to tell Google, Samsung, Huawei, LG, OnePlus, Fairphone, etc. how to build their devices. The one device they do get to decide how it works is the iPhone. Because they created it, they own it, and they get to decid…

> Their device, their decision.

Once I buy an iPhone, I own it and it is my device.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#539

Post by drenvuk »

eecc wrote: post #287
fakedang wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wish I could downvote this for fake info, but I'm too new. Distributors make a pittance for a relatively risky bet on delivering fruit and veggies. Margins are usually below 10%, often close to 5%, and definitely nowhere near 30%. On top of that, there's the added risk of damage happening to the goods in transit and storage, voiding the entire profit. Google and Apple make money by sitting on their asses and taking a…

Nope, you should do your research before reaching for your guns. In Italy for example it’s a well known, scandalous situation that’s been going on for years. Apologies for the Italian links but that’s all I could find for now: https://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/2020/05/14/frutta-e-verdura... https://youtu.be/29OYrFOYkTg

excuse me for my lack of Italian but is there any way you can find something in English or possibly outline what is happening?

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#540

Post by arrosenberg »

indigochill wrote: post #352
baq wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the whole point of antitrust regulations is that > Both Apple and Google are fully within their rights to charge whatever they want within their app store and enforce whatever capricious whims they like on apps that they distribute. actually isn't always true - especially when it hurts consumers. of course it isn't up to us here to decide if it does. remember that private doesn't mean unregulated.

> of course it isn't up to us here to decide if it does I also think it shouldn't be up to courts. It should be up to the consumers themselves. They generally seem quite happy with Apple and Google. On the other hand, if there is a consumer need that is not being met by Google or Apple, it is a prime opportunity to disrupt the market with a new offering that fulfills that need. If Google or Apple stamp that out or ha…

The point is that Apple and Google have used their market power in other verticals (hardware, services) to lock all other competitors out of the mobile app distribution market. They are acting as private regulators of who can publish a mobile app, which is unacceptable if we still claim to support competitive, public markets.

How would a consumer even know if they were happy given the lack of options? Are they actually happy, or do they just have bigger issues to worry about? That's why we hire experts to act as regulators for new industries.

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