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Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

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Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#411

Post by toyg »

eecc wrote: post #299
toyg wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re kidding, right? I don’t know how it is in the Land of the Free, but in Europe most margins on food are in the single digits all the way down. It’s true that small producers are squeezed at both ends, but at least there are market dynamics in place - if one supermarket chain takes too much, you go and sell to the other one, and the consumer can get it anyway. Double-digit and triple-digit margins are the reason…

No, I’m not. In Italy it’s common to see markups of 600% on veggies at the supermarket. There are few intermediaries and they get to dictate prices, mandatory discounts, and run double-discounted auctions (which the legislature is trying to make illegal.) If you get to outsmart them selling to another distributor (as if they’re not conniving already) good luck selling your next load of perishable goods before it rots…

I think we’re not talking about the same definition of margin. If Widget A goes through 10 intermediaries and each skims 5%, that’s still 5% margin for every link of the chain. I seriously doubt any intermediary or food distributor in Italy enjoys a 600% margin - if you know of one let me know and I’ll go buy shares in it tomorrow, the dividends must be succulent. You can argue that the chain is too long or this or that link is squeezed, but that is another matter.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#412

Post by davidwparker »

macinjosh wrote: post #320
kmeisthax wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Provide an officially-sanctioned way to install alternative software sources. macOS has that; Apple will even certify third party developers so that the system can still validate software outside of the Mac App Store. That kind of security model would be perfect for iOS and would moot pretty much all the substantive parts of Epic's complaint.

Just because it is something YOU want doesn't mean we ALL want it. I appreciate Apple's review of apps and their store policies. While no human endeavor is perfect it is at least an attempt to keep their platform more secure, safer for kids, higher quality, and more trustworthy. Opening up the platform to other app stores means they have less control over the experience on their platform it opens more avenues for mal…

Or, you know, you could just not use any other app store on iPhone and continue to use Apple's and it'll still work fine.

And let others use the Epic app store for Fortnight.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#413

Post by pja »

ksec wrote: post #372
pja wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Appoogle are a duopoly. You can’t get significant sales on mobile phones without going through their respective App Stores, which both charge 30%. What a coincidence! Your comparisons with book publishers are specious: if I write a book today I can go to any of a number of publishers, none of whom have any kind of control over access to readers. Or I can even self-publish and sell direct. Jailbreaking is a complete i…

> Appoogle I did a search on Google and nothing really came up. Did you just invent the term? I love the name. It might end up in Main Stream Media soon.

I came up with it on the fly, but it was inspired by FAANG & similar terms. Surprised it’s that unique tbh!

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#414

Post by neogodless »

dpkonofa wrote: post #385
pja wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Appoogle are a duopoly. You can’t get significant sales on mobile phones without going through their respective App Stores, which both charge 30%. What a coincidence! Your comparisons with book publishers are specious: if I write a book today I can go to any of a number of publishers, none of whom have any kind of control over access to readers. Or I can even self-publish and sell direct. Jailbreaking is a complete i…

I don't think that's a fair assessment at all. Both Google and, especially, Apple have spent millions of dollars, hours, and effort to create their respective App Stores and the people and tools needed to run them. There's a reason why there's a difference, in the real world, between a Walmart and a Target or Sprouts. Likewise, there's a difference between Apple, Google, or anyone else's App Stores. The main differen…

> they're buying in to the whole group of customers that said App Store brings with them.

Isn't that what a duopoly is, by definition?

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#415

Post by ROARosen »

dpkonofa wrote: post #385
pja wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Appoogle are a duopoly. You can’t get significant sales on mobile phones without going through their respective App Stores, which both charge 30%. What a coincidence! Your comparisons with book publishers are specious: if I write a book today I can go to any of a number of publishers, none of whom have any kind of control over access to readers. Or I can even self-publish and sell direct. Jailbreaking is a complete i…

I don't think that's a fair assessment at all. Both Google and, especially, Apple have spent millions of dollars, hours, and effort to create their respective App Stores and the people and tools needed to run them. There's a reason why there's a difference, in the real world, between a Walmart and a Target or Sprouts. Likewise, there's a difference between Apple, Google, or anyone else's App Stores. The main differen…

> Both Google and, especially, Apple have spent millions of dollars, hours, and effort to create their respective App Stores and the people and tools needed to run them

Both Google and especially Apple have also spent millions of resources and money, making sure they are the only app store in use (by default).

They could have spent some of those millions creating a set of rules for independent app marketplaces to be able to distribute content on their platform instead of locking everyone in to theirs'.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#417

Post by toyg »

HatchedLake721 wrote: post #250
toyg wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you get the foam out of your mouth, you could go and check how the various console markets were bootstrapped. Paying developers to make apps is just fine, if done well. Windows Mobile was undone by a number of mistakes (like rebuilding the platform 3 times from scratch), paying developers was not one of them. > about the 15% Yeah, about that. As it is, it’s monopoly rent (and before you bring up consoles - yes,…

It's very kind of you, but there's no foam coming out of my mouth. Thank you. Was BlackBerry undone by rebuilding the platform 3 times from scratch too? And Symbian too? > Paying developers to make apps is just fine, if done well. Of course. But it hasn't been done well in the mobile world, has it? So why is it relevant here? I remember pre 2008 when carriers controlled apps on phones. I also remember xda-developers…

Should we also be happy that aristocracy has been abolished in most European countries, so the Napoleonic regime was excellent and we should have kept that? “It’s better than it was” is no argument for keeping still. Apple’s regime is more open than the previous one was, but it’s still nowhere near a really-open market.

I’m not sure why you’re trying to go through the catalogue of failures in the mobile world. Nokia afaik didn’t even pay developers, certainly not when they were spinning around trying to reboot their fossil OS - no app, paid or otherwise, could save that pile of crap. Blackberry I never followed, but I understand they also crumbled largely from within, I don’t think they ever paid developers either.

> why is it relevant here

It’s relevant in the sense that the lack of success of one particular effort does not mean the strategy is absolutely bad, as you were arguing.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#418

Post by enos_feedler »

danShumway wrote: post #329
pja wrote: post #173

I’m seeing a lot of positive comments on HN about this: to me it seems to be purely a cynical piece of PR on Apple’s part. They hope to significantly reduce the pressure on politicians to take a close look at their App store practices by significantly reducing the absolute number of developers suffering the full impact whilst taking the minimum possible hit to their revenue. This has nothing to do with “doing the rig…

This news doesn't mean people shouldn't continue to put pressure on Apple and legislators to address the core issue (app store competition), but it's still really good news for small developers. It should also solidly put down all of the arguments we were seeing about whether indie devs and lawsuits putting pressure on Apple and legislators are at all worthwhile. A drop in app fees by 15% is a substantial win, and th…

Solidly? Not really. Still believe the Epic and Apple fight is all about Tim Sweeney being a greedy business man. Zero proof this 15% reduction has anything to do with pressure from that legal battle. Apple has made rev share changes in the past unprovoked (like 15% for sustained subs). How long do you think this change was in the works for? If this change was a response that’s great. But I would bet in that case Apple did it to take wind out of Epic’s sails around standing up for little devs. Apple just showed they cared about them in a single change. Will Epic back away now? Fat chance.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#419

Post by mediochrea »

ryanschneider wrote: post #407

I really wish they had just said that the tax is 15% on your first $1m in sales and 30% on all sales after each year. Correct me if I’m wrong, but with the current plan I can actually _lose_ money year over year around the $1m mark. For example if I make $1.01m in year one and then my sales tick up to $1.1m in year two my Apple tax is ~150k in year 1 but balloons to 330k in year 2, leading to a net loss in profits de…

>Existing developers who made up to $1 million in 2020 for all of their apps, as well as developers new to the App Store, can qualify for the program and the reduced commission.

>If a participating developer surpasses the $1 million threshold, the standard commission rate will apply for the remainder of the year.

I think it's exactly like you wish it was.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#420

Post by [deleted] »

beagle3 wrote: post #332
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> significantly reducing the absolute number of developers suffering the full impact whilst taking the minimum possible hit to their revenue It also reduces their anti-competitive effect on new entrants. Now they have a beachhead. Sounds like a win-win. There should be an additional tier between e.g. $1mm and $25mm. Though that still wouldn't satisfy an absolutist constituency. So maybe this is the most efficient com…

It has zero effect on Epic’s bottom line, but a potentially huge effect on their lawsuit - they were portraying themselves in the media, and likely the lawsuit as well, as “fighting for everyone, especially the little guys”. All of a sudden, they are left fighting for the fat cats.

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