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The biology of dads

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Re: The biology of dads

#221

Post by belorn »

russellbeattie wrote: post #206

I wasn't aware you could just give someone oxytocin via a nasal spray. That seems like it would be a pretty effective antidepressant. Sometimes I really feel like I just need a hug... Why don't they sell that stuff over the counter?

Oxytocin has this wonderful effect of increasing pro-social behavior and reward response towards people that one identify as in-group. The drawback however is that a similar effect occur to our behavior towards members of the out-group, but with the effects of fear, lower pro-social behavior and lower rewards.

It could have some problematic effects if given as an antidepressant.

Re: The biology of dads

#222

Post by mcv »

lqet wrote: post #151
ksdale wrote: post #58

"They seemed like ideal infant-caregivers: calm, gentle, patient and sensitive. They didn’t seem like men you would go to battle with. In fact, they were the very antithesis of the warriors and athletes – think Maximus, Achilles or Michael Jordan – often associated with a masculine ideal." I became a father quite a bit before most of my friends, and so was the butt of some jokes about masculinity for the way I parent…

> "go to battle" I remember that in the first days after my kid was born, the thought that I would defend that child to the bitter end against any attacker suddenly seemed completely natural, even trivial. It was quite strange and included a sudden extreme awareness of (and aggressive feelings against) animals which came to close. This included dogs. The feelings were overwhelmingly archaic. I talked to my wife about…

This protection instinct can be utterly irrational: when my first son was just born, we were walking on a sidewalk and a car passed by, and I felt a slight urge to throw myself in front of that car to protect my family. Of course I didn't, but I did know right then that I would be able to fight and give my life for my family, if necessary.

I try not to, but I know it's in there.

Re: The biology of dads

#223

Post by tacheiordache »

ksdale wrote: post #140
tacheiordache wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps he was referring to something more physical as in her body being unspoiled. But I totally agree with you, nobody forces people to have children and the ones who have them by accident and hate it afterwards is clear they have not reached a maturity level or preparedness for being a parent and there's nothing wrong with it at all, people have choices. But ones who consider children spoils or as curses or burden…

Thinking of your significant other's body being spoiled by childbearing is almost as bad as thinking of children's existence as spoiling things. Maybe worse.

I agree.

Re: The biology of dads

#224

Post by 1996 »

elteto wrote: post #164
lqet wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "go to battle" I remember that in the first days after my kid was born, the thought that I would defend that child to the bitter end against any attacker suddenly seemed completely natural, even trivial. It was quite strange and included a sudden extreme awareness of (and aggressive feelings against) animals which came to close. This included dogs. The feelings were overwhelmingly archaic. I talked to my wife about…

One day it just hit me: "I could totally give my life for this child". It came out of nowhere and it was a chilling and somewhat unnerving feeling. I never felt that for anyone. But the conviction is there, almost like a peaceful resignation: if there is no other solution and that is the only possible alternative then so be it. Crazy.

Indeed, crazy. Some people think having a child rewrites of a lot of core routines - apparently also those involved into self-preservation.

I'm sorry if that comes out as offensive, but this strikes me as something a virus or a parasite would also do, hijacking the host brain.

How exposure to parasites encourages promiscuity has been studied: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4013694/

Obviously, children may not be parasites, but the "It came out of nowhere and it was a chilling and somewhat unnerving feeling" part is troubling.

Re: The biology of dads

#225

Post by rhino369 »

mqrs wrote: post #45
wsc981 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My daughter is now 3.5 years old, but I can't say I experienced the same. I believe the future of my daughter is bright. I guess your anxiety could be based on the location where your living? I believe my daughter will be able to find plenty of great opportunities in her life and I'll be able to give her a very nice start compared to most people around where I live (Thailand). I have to admit I am also not worried fo…

> I am also not worried for things like covid and climate change Would you care to explain why?

Covid is about as bad as the flu for kids. Certainly wouldn't want it, but its not the end of the world.

The worst consequences of climate change won't fall on Middle Class Americans, it'll fall on people who cannot afford to move, rely on subsistence farming, etc. Maybe Miami and New Orleans don't exist in 2100. But cities like Chicago were founded and became large cities in under 80 years.

And I'm pretty sure cities like Miami will just slowly recede inward rather than pack it all up.

Re: The biology of dads

#226

Post by pbronez »

jonathanlydall wrote: post #185
11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #108

One aspect of fatherhood that surprised me is what I call the 'rescue response'. I was not able to find any formal information about this behavior, but I have to think there is something out there. I have experienced this exactly twice in my life on separate occasions: My child entered a physically and immediately dangerous situation. As soon as I saw their peril, my mind went into a kind of flow state. I didn't take…

I know you acknowledged maybe not just a father thing. I’ve had two major life in peril crisis with my wife. First was about 3.5 years ago and started with her sister calling to say they just had a serious car accident which ultimately resulted in my wife being in intensive care for over a week. The other was in June this year when my wife and I discovered our baby was arriving 10 weeks early. Gratefully, in both cas…

Oh yeah it’s a very weird feeling when you finally get home from the hospital. It takes a moment, then you realize that nobody else is there to help. The baby is there, hugely needy, completely dependent, and it’s just up to you guys to handle it. Gulp.

Re: The biology of dads

#227

Post by zarkov99 »

kortilla wrote: post #181
zarkov99 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but morality aside there is something to be admired in people that do dangerous, frightnening and difficult things for a living.

“Difficult” does not belong with the other two and I’m not sure we need to admire people who have to risk their lives so much as pity them. It’s unfortunate we have so many roles in society that still require that.

You would be surprised as to how many of these people would pity and politely dismiss most of richer and softer types of human that inhabit tech.

Re: The biology of dads

#228

Post by dabraham1248 »

christophilus wrote: post #68
yellowstuff wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see this as paradoxical. For babies past a couple months old a lot of cries are actually manipulative, and a more empathetic person can better distinguish them. I think my wife and I started sleeping training our son at around 12 weeks old, and quickly learned to tell the difference between a "complaining" cry that meant he was unhappy but he could probably soothe himself, and a "real" cry that meant he was r…

Did you have a hard time convincing your wife to do sleep training on your kid? My wife thinks it’s abusive. I think it’s abusive to everyone else in the house not to do it!

My wife wouldn't entertain the idea. Then the pediatrician pointed out that children screaming in their cribs have a much better survival rate than kids whose parents fall asleep at the wheel because they haven't slept in a week.

That night it took my daughter less than 15 minutes to stop screaming, and then everyone in the house slept for 6 hours straight.

In less than a week she was smiling when we put her down for the night.

I hope it works out that well for you.

Re: The biology of dads

#229

Post by Balgair »

ksdale wrote: post #58

"They seemed like ideal infant-caregivers: calm, gentle, patient and sensitive. They didn’t seem like men you would go to battle with. In fact, they were the very antithesis of the warriors and athletes – think Maximus, Achilles or Michael Jordan – often associated with a masculine ideal." I became a father quite a bit before most of my friends, and so was the butt of some jokes about masculinity for the way I parent…

> think Maximus, Achilles or Michael Jordan

Maximus is a bit of a strange choice there. Marcus Aurelius of Meditations fame, is the titular grandfather figure in the film (right at the start). Meditations has a lot in it about child rearing and Marcus was something of a devoted father to his many children (for Roman men in those days). All that said, his son, Commodus, the first emperor to have the title passed down to him from his own father, was a uniquely terrible person. As seen in the film, he was just a 'very bad guy', but in reality he was much worse than is portrayed.

In essence, no matter the effort you put into your kid, they are still themselves

Re: The biology of dads

#230

Post by jelliclesfarm »

1996 wrote: post #224
elteto wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One day it just hit me: "I could totally give my life for this child". It came out of nowhere and it was a chilling and somewhat unnerving feeling. I never felt that for anyone. But the conviction is there, almost like a peaceful resignation: if there is no other solution and that is the only possible alternative then so be it. Crazy.

Indeed, crazy. Some people think having a child rewrites of a lot of core routines - apparently also those involved into self-preservation. I'm sorry if that comes out as offensive, but this strikes me as something a virus or a parasite would also do, hijacking the host brain. How exposure to parasites encourages promiscuity has been studied: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4013694/ Obviously, children m…

except they are parasites. for women, biologically, the foetus considers the mother's body as the host body and siphons off resources. and thats ok. because the parasite is 50% of host DNA.

all babies are born premature because we evolved quickly and the human female's pelvic bones didnt grow as wide and as quickly as the baby's head to come through the birth canal. even after birth, the human baby needs the mother/father for a much longer time for survival.

progestrone, semen, testosterone, pregnancy etc hijacks not just the blood stream, hormones but also the brain because the fetus basically converts the mother's body into a fortress and a machine to keep itself alive. after birth, the immature baby/fetus also hijacks the father's brain and instincts.

it's best to remember that all biological organisms are mere vehicles for DNA and it's survival instinct. this isnt just for humans. my favourites are insects. at the farm..watch the praying mantis and the tarantula wasp and the drone bees play out their lives changes your perspective on life forever.

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