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The biology of dads

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Re: The biology of dads

#151

Post by lqet »

ksdale wrote: post #58

"They seemed like ideal infant-caregivers: calm, gentle, patient and sensitive. They didn’t seem like men you would go to battle with. In fact, they were the very antithesis of the warriors and athletes – think Maximus, Achilles or Michael Jordan – often associated with a masculine ideal." I became a father quite a bit before most of my friends, and so was the butt of some jokes about masculinity for the way I parent…

> "go to battle"

I remember that in the first days after my kid was born, the thought that I would defend that child to the bitter end against any attacker suddenly seemed completely natural, even trivial. It was quite strange and included a sudden extreme awareness of (and aggressive feelings against) animals which came to close. This included dogs. The feelings were overwhelmingly archaic. I talked to my wife about this, she experienced the same. I now understand the aggressiveness of animals who protect their offspring. I felt it myself.

There seems to be some research regarding this: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/147470491666228...

Re: The biology of dads

#152

Post by cortesoft »

lqet wrote: post #151
ksdale wrote: post #58

"They seemed like ideal infant-caregivers: calm, gentle, patient and sensitive. They didn’t seem like men you would go to battle with. In fact, they were the very antithesis of the warriors and athletes – think Maximus, Achilles or Michael Jordan – often associated with a masculine ideal." I became a father quite a bit before most of my friends, and so was the butt of some jokes about masculinity for the way I parent…

> "go to battle" I remember that in the first days after my kid was born, the thought that I would defend that child to the bitter end against any attacker suddenly seemed completely natural, even trivial. It was quite strange and included a sudden extreme awareness of (and aggressive feelings against) animals which came to close. This included dogs. The feelings were overwhelmingly archaic. I talked to my wife about…

I can totally relate to this. I have always been a completely non-violent person, but I remember the feeling of “I would kill to defend this tiny creature” when I became a dad. It was pretty powerful.

Re: The biology of dads

#153

Post by bcrosby95 »

oblio wrote: post #122
christophilus wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you have a hard time convincing your wife to do sleep training on your kid? My wife thinks it’s abusive. I think it’s abusive to everyone else in the house not to do it!

From what I see/hear/experience, every kid is different. As some stranger on the internet said: "After I had my first kid, I thought I was God's gift to parenting. A few years later I had a second kid and he cured me of such misconceived notions." :-D

This reminds me of Thanksgiving at my brother's house. He has 3 teenage sons, and they were all super helpful while we were there.

My wife asked him how he raised such helpful kids and he said: bribery. If they behaved well and helped with things they would be getting a video game of their choice.

Re: The biology of dads

#154

Post by CalRobert »

knuthsat wrote: post #118
bcrosby95 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have enough kids it's kinda a sink or swim moment: you learn to tune it out or go crazy. We have twin 2 year olds and a 5 year old. There's been periods of time where there's crying (by at least one of them) for most of the day. When you're 1 on 3 at these sorts of ages it's inevitable. When 1 starts crying in the car and the other 2 start crying because the crying is too loud, there's not much you can do but…

It's stuff like this that makes me believe even more in my opinion that the world is just not built for parents. I just cannot believe this is what family life needs to be.

It really isn't. If nothing else, nuclear families and living in isolation are dumb. I'd really prefer to live next door (or in the same house as) a grandparent, maybe uncle/aunt, etc. and we could share the childcare burden - watching 4 kids for half a day would be a lot better than 2 kids all day.

Nevermind that if they play on the street - a perfectly normal activity before cars - a driver will kill them :-(

Re: The biology of dads

#155

Post by jedimastert »

jedimastert wrote: post #64
bluedays wrote: post #20

>Paradoxically, we found that fathers who activate the anterior cingulate the most when listening to infant crying report the most negative emotional responses to those cries, in particular being more likely to label the cry as spoiled or manipulative. How can greater engagement of a brain region associated with empathy be linked with such negative subjective reactions to the cry? We suspect it relates to a phenomeno…

> The newborn phase was really hard for me So many people led me to believe that I would fall in love with my kid the instant I first laid eyes on her, and it simply wasn't the case. I love her so much now, but it definitely wasn't the immediate flip of a switch that some may believe

Looking back, I think the issue here is that most of the people who give me (mostly unsolicited) parenting advice (VERY MUCH MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE INCOMING) is sub-urban middle-aged moms, who genuinely have no idea that this reaction is a biological one specific to females and the child-birth process.

There are plenty of things I miss about the south, but unsolicited parenting advice is one of them. Very much a "you're not really an adult" vibes

Re: The biology of dads

#156

Post by lallysingh »

Kluny wrote: post #119
TooRightKite wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's nice, but why did your step daughter max the pride-meter instead of one of your own?

You're making a pretty big leap of assumption here. - he didn't say that he had biological kids - the step daughter is his own daughter, they aren't two different things - he didn't say that if he does have biological kids, that he didn't tear up at their graduation - he also didn't specify the ages of any of his kids, so there's no reason to assume that any others have graduated I'm curious as to where those assumpt…

Also, it's not like we're born with DNA testers. There's no reason why our instincts actually know the difference between our biological kids and others we've been with, played the same role with, and raised the same way.

Re: The biology of dads

#157

Post by watwut »

MaximumYComb wrote: post #116
watwut wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is mentally difficult for mothers too. Like isolation, there is reason why the stereotype of woman used to be constantly on the phone. Or taking a lot after husband came from work. Single parenthood is even harder, it sounds that you have done good job with them.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply it's not hard on mother's too. I meant that they seem to have a better hormonal reward system with babies. Mother's seem really happy cuddling their little ones and adult women tend to enjoy cuddling babies compare to adult men. I didn't have that same connection with mine so I didn't get reward, at the time, for my efforts.

I did not meant to imply that you implied, you did not.

Just that the a lot of those frustrating and isolating aspects are not that you are less made or less capable for it, it is shared frustration and depression. Tho, advantage of being mom is that you can find other mom to complain to. I agree it is harder for men who are less likely to be in that position.

Hormonal things are more after birth. Moms can also get "touched out" when you don't want touch anymore. Some of cuddling is really done because you know it is good for kids.

I don't want to be the one who will say your experience of being uncomfortable more does not exists. It is way more ok for women to touch other women them males touching other males. These aspects are much different between genders.

Imo, a lot of women specific socialization is really about teaching women how to break isolation etc. It is the thing I realized only after I had kids. A lot of stereotypes were actually adaptation.

Re: The biology of dads

#158

Post by p2t2p »

watwut wrote: post #102
zarkov99 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? What is your culture's cultural ideal?

For whatever is worth, I don't find warrior ideal either. I associate that with someone who is source of danger and threat. Warriors around means that you have to go home shortest route and watch whether the room is dangerous. Athletes have good bodies, but that is about it.

As one good book a read recently says: Be dangerous but not the danger.

In think warrior ideal describes exactly that. You've got tools, skills and internal readiness to be the danger but you're not until it's necessary

Re: The biology of dads

#159

Post by smegcicle »

dang wrote: post #112
smegcicle wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Added to my wife’s work schedule There's your problem. The idea that women have a moral right to enter the workforce being used as an argument against their necessity in the full time job of raising their own children is nonsensical.

Please don't attack other users (especially not over personally intimate topics like parenting), and please don't take HN threads into generic flamewar.

I suppose it could be read as an attack on the poster, but I meant it much more as an attack on the expectation of raising kids working out easily in that situation, as indicated in the latter sentence.

Given the context of 'hating fatherhood', pointing that out seems relevant.

Re: The biology of dads

#160

Post by tmnstr85 »

I've had the privilege of this experience twice, both girls. I'm 35

The first one, picture perfect. I could feel my body "go to battle" there was this sense of pride and drive. I felt like I was fulfilling a part of my life that was absolutely necessary.

The second one, we failed. Pre-mature by 3 weeks. Bacterial meningitis within 4 days of her being home. She's here with us now but she suffers from global sensory deficits, CP and retardation. It was the polar opposite of my first experience. Pure torture.

The biology of fatherhood is a powerful one, it can give - just as much as it can take. For anyone who's a father out there, without a connection to their child, especially a healthy one. You're missing out. For any fathers out there who have had to endure failure, you are not alone and those children need love too.

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