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South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

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Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#231

Post by roywiggins »

eej71 wrote: post #209
whalesalad wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if 10 years from now we discover that wearing a mask was a completely pointless endeavor .... the cost of wearing a mask is SO LOW that it is worth doing it. But it is scientifically proven to limit the rate of the spread, which is the least I can do to protect myself and those around me. I don't care if I get covid ... I don't think it will kill me based on my vitals. However, we don't fully understand the long…

A counter point to consider - and one that I consider to be a little more rational - is that - what if in the messaging to get people to wear masks - we have inadvertantly encouraged riskier behavior? As an analogy, I'd explain it like this. What if in the process to encourage people to wear seatbelts, drivers who did that then felt entitled to drive even faster thus resulting in even worse accidents and more frequen…

Everyone wears masks in NYC and there was no COVID uptick until the last month or so.

even if it encourages risky behavior, there's no evidence that it does it enough to translate to higher spread overall, which is what matters. As long as the net impact doesn't increase transmission, they're not a problem.

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#232

Post by Diederich »

vkou wrote: post #204
Diederich wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Countries with dense populations, nearly universal mask wear, and also only minimally 'locked down' have very low Covid19 rates. Examples include Japan, South Korea and China. In my mind, the above facts are really all that's necessary: dense population + minimal lock down + universal mask wear == low Covid19 rates. There are many other good reasons as well.

Minimal lockdown isn't the reason those countries brought the virus under control. One hard lockdown, supported by incredibly through contact tracing was. I don't think a single polity in the US, including NYC had a single hard lockdown. And I know that not a single polity in the US has managed to do effective contact tracing.

Thanks for your feedback.

To be clear: I wasn't saying that minimal lockdown was the reason for low numbers, though how I laid it out is definitely unclear.

My belief is that near universal mask compliance is the main reason some countries have managed to keep the virus under control even though they haven't been forced to do severe lockdowns.

Your point about contact tracing is relevant of course. I know both Japan and S. Korea did a lot of that, and of course the US didn't even try.

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#233

Post by gruez »

bleepblorp wrote: post #199
Animats wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The effectiveness of non-medical masks is not all that great. Bandannas, near zero. N95, quite good.[1] Cloth masks are all over the place depending on material, weave, etc. CDC: "During a pandemic, cloth masks may be the only option available; however, they should be used as a last resort when medical masks and respirators are not available". Ordinary medical masks are easy to get now. N95 masks are still hard to ge…

The free market is right there, refusing to address shortages and price gouging you for essential supplies. A few people are getting rich and many people are being put at risk, but the free market is fine with this. Meanwhile, in South Korea, the government adopted a non-free-market solution and has been making KN95 masks available to its population through a combination of rationing and subsidies. Everyone has acces…

>The free market is right there, refusing to address shortages and price gouging you for essential supplies

It's hardly a free market when there's anti price gouging laws.

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#234

Post by dave_sullivan »

anonfornoreason wrote: post #187
hcknwscommenter wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spain did do real lockdowns and it worked. And then they stopped doing real lockdowns. So it is in fact supported by the evidence.

It didn’t solve the problem, meaning, unless you are willing to lock down indefinitely, the virus will come back. So in the pedantic sense you are right, lockdowns work, but clearly are not a solution.

I was there and remember the sequence of events clearly. The lockdown worked and cases across Spain were very low right after the quarantine. Then tourism opened back up, because the economy, and tons of people from countries that did not quarantine all flocked to Spain. Spain’s numbers started going up immediately.

Lockdown works; Spain would have been fine by now if they were more careful with opening (not allowing the British in for instance). But alas it is worse than ever and there is no stomach for another lockdown so people wear masks but restaurants are crowded every day and there are few travel restrictions so...

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#235

Post by vokep »

ashtonbaker wrote: post #111
Claudus wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d say the basis in the US is freedoms guaranteed by The Constitution, just like the basis for smoking, drinking, using recreational drugs, having an unhealthy diet, riding a motorcycle, not exercising regularly, etc.

To choose not to wear a mask is not like your other examples, because it increases not only the risk to yourself, but to those around you. I don't necessarily think your posts should be getting flagged, but you seem to be arguing in bad faith.

As another mentioned, its easy to make arguments for several of those having extended effects on others. And we legislate around that, we legislate those things to generally be allowed but socially engineered to bias away from with things like "sin taxes"

In the same way, it may be a lot more palatable to have such laws around covid, (higher tax on businesses which refuse to require masks for customers, but they're allowed to refuse if they choose etc, employees would likely still be require to mask) instead of mandated requirement to wear a mask

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#236

Post by Diederich »

jdhn wrote: post #104
Diederich wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I remember correctly, deaths today are linked with the hospitalizations 12 days prior. From what I've seen, South Dakota is nearly out of ICU beds, as are many other states. These Covid19 death rates are going to get really, really bad this time around.

>From what I've seen, South Dakota is nearly out of ICU beds Do you have a source for this?

I was looking at this site:

https://public.tableau.com/profile/todd.bellemare#!/vizhome/...

Noting that the adjacent comment also seems to have some good data.

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#237

Post by rusk »

agentdrtran wrote: post #196
Diederich wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a harsh thing to say, but I understand where you're coming from. We....all of us, all human beings...need to be very patient and merciful with each other. My wife and I know good, honest and smart people who are fully convinced that Covid19 isn't that dangerous, that it's a hoax, etc. I'm not saying "smart" lightly. All humans...even the best of us...are at our core deeply irrational most of the time. Differe…

> My wife and I know good, honest and smart people who are fully convinced that Covid19 isn't that dangerous, that it's a hoax, etc. I'm not saying "smart" lightly. If they have a Ph.D in theoretical physics but think COVID is a hoax they're still dumb, sorry.

Pretty much this.

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#238

Post by roywiggins »

guenthert wrote: post #178
whalesalad wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if 10 years from now we discover that wearing a mask was a completely pointless endeavor .... the cost of wearing a mask is SO LOW that it is worth doing it. But it is scientifically proven to limit the rate of the spread, which is the least I can do to protect myself and those around me. I don't care if I get covid ... I don't think it will kill me based on my vitals. However, we don't fully understand the long…

The cost is the alarming sight, causing the economic crisis. In Santa Clara/CA so far only some 400 people died of COVID-19, i.e. about 2 a day, while some 40 a day die of unrelated causes. Yet, if you step outside, you might think the Zombie apocalypse is happening.

I find people not wearing masks much more alarming than people not wearing them. I am much more alarmed at the prospect of mass death than people wearing jaunty masks.

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#239

Post by misiti3780 »

whalesalad wrote: post #12

My wife and I just moved from Orange County, CA to Detroit, MI this last August. We decided to drive the northern route. Heading through Vegas, Utah, Yellowstone and Montana. Then onward through the plains of North Dakota and Minnesota. Turning north we entered Wisconsin and finally the UP (Upper Peninsula) of Michigan. After a few days exploring we turned south to Detroit. In Vegas the concern for masks started to w…

I'm very pro-mask but cases are skyrocketing everywhere, even in countries like France and Italy where masking is the norm. I don't presume to know how to fix the issue, but virologist knew this was going to happen -- it is called seasonal forcing[1]. It's disturbing to me that there are people in the US that dont believe COVID-19 is real (I think you can blame the administration for that), but I'm not sure the spikes are surprising.

[1]https://www.researchgate.net/publication/339321846_Impact_of...

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#240

Post by wesleywt »

ralusek wrote: post #42
sonotathrowaway wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telling you uncomfortable truths isn’t a hipaa violation, as the law was not written to protect your feelings.

I mean...many uncomfortable truths ARE HIPAA violations. What makes it NOT a HIPAA violation is that it's just general/anonymized anecdata. I can't go up to someone and be like "Alice Rosenstein has cervical cancer, sorry if that's an uncomfortable truth, but the law wasn't written to protect your feelings." That would, in fact, be a HIPAA violation.

There is a difference between saying, Mrs. Jones has a bad yeast infection and there are many yeast infections this time of year. The one is giving patient information the other is discussing the disease.
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