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South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

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Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#201

Post by Diederich »

DanBC wrote: post #173
Diederich wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not meant to be a rebuttal to your comment, but a discussion. Consider the case of South Korea and Japan. 1. Dense populations. 2. Very little Covid19. 3. Relatively low lock-down related economic impact. 4. Nearly universal mask wear. Honest question: what else do we need to know? I strongly suspect that if the United States, or any other country, had nearly universal mask wearing, we'd have a strong economy…

Masks are the thing you do if you cannot socially distance. We have good evidence for social distancing, we don't yet (for a variety of reasons) have good evidence for mask wearing. You point to South Korea, and then claim it's the masks. But there's a bunch of other stuff they're also doing (because of their experience with coronaviruses): earlier lockdown, harder lockdown, much better test trace and isolate program…

Thanks for this, I appreciate it. I'm aware of some of the details you mentioned.

> harder lockdown

So I did some more digging, and found this:

https://thediplomat.com/2020/11/south-korea-faces-another-po...

This broadly supports what you're saying. Their success has been due to many rigorous and (near?) universally adopted protocols, not just mask wearing.

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#202

Post by hcknwscommenter »

anonfornoreason wrote: post #187
hcknwscommenter wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spain did do real lockdowns and it worked. And then they stopped doing real lockdowns. So it is in fact supported by the evidence.

It didn’t solve the problem, meaning, unless you are willing to lock down indefinitely, the virus will come back. So in the pedantic sense you are right, lockdowns work, but clearly are not a solution.

Clearly it is a solution. The problem is that places like Spain stopped their lockdowns. What we really need is a flexible and informed approach, where the stringency of lockdowns is implemented on a sliding scale determined by actual real-time case numbers. Masks and other basic measures should be everywhere and always required and more stringent steps applied proactively as hot spots emerge. This coupled with rapid testing and contact tracing works. It has been proven multiple times in multipel places.

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#203

Post by corpMaverick »

TheGrim-999 wrote: post #174
aazaa wrote: post #77

Politics seems to be a factor here, but I wonder how much of this has to do with popular culture. Over the last 20 years we've been bombarded with metric tons of Apocalypse porn, a lot of it focused on killer viruses. Most of those movies are unrealistic to put it mildly. Zombies. Deserted cities. Rotting corpses on sidewalks. Visible, palpable nauseating death. This pandemic is nothing like those movies. I know of n…

Ironically, the notion that the President called the virus a hoax is itself the hoax. He never said that, and you can't quote him saying that. He did call the media's reaction to the virus a hoax, which the media of course then took out of context and reinterpreted in the worst way possible. But in our post-truth world we now have mainstream media taking quotes out of context and reinterpreting them to create their p…

That is easy to fix. He should send a clear messages about the virus, but he keeps has downplaying the severity of the outbreak. Even calling the medias reaction to the virus a hoax is wrong.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-coronavirus-rally-re...

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#204

Post by vkou »

Diederich wrote: post #61
Claudus wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, what is your basis for wearing a mask?

Countries with dense populations, nearly universal mask wear, and also only minimally 'locked down' have very low Covid19 rates. Examples include Japan, South Korea and China. In my mind, the above facts are really all that's necessary: dense population + minimal lock down + universal mask wear == low Covid19 rates. There are many other good reasons as well.

Minimal lockdown isn't the reason those countries brought the virus under control.

One hard lockdown, supported by incredibly through contact tracing was.

I don't think a single polity in the US, including NYC had a single hard lockdown.

And I know that not a single polity in the US has managed to do effective contact tracing.

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#205

Post by chaostheory »

whalesalad wrote: post #12

My wife and I just moved from Orange County, CA to Detroit, MI this last August. We decided to drive the northern route. Heading through Vegas, Utah, Yellowstone and Montana. Then onward through the plains of North Dakota and Minnesota. Turning north we entered Wisconsin and finally the UP (Upper Peninsula) of Michigan. After a few days exploring we turned south to Detroit. In Vegas the concern for masks started to w…

While the SF Bay Area is much better than most of the country, it's still annoying seeing people here not use masks outside of their homes, or wear them improperly.

With masks we can get back to normal relatively quickly, but people just need to wear them

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#207

Post by [deleted] »

Claudus wrote: post #94
seankimdesign wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a quote from Robert Redfield, the director of CDC. > We are not defenseless against COVID-19. Cloth face coverings are one of the most powerful weapons we have to slow and stop the spread of the virus -- particularly when used universally within a community setting. All Americans have a responsibility to protect themselves, their families, and their communities. I trust his expertise and judgment. What's the b…

I’d say the basis in the US is freedoms guaranteed by The Constitution, just like the basis for smoking, drinking, using recreational drugs, having an unhealthy diet, riding a motorcycle, not exercising regularly, etc.

[deleted]

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#208

Post by smileysteve »

whalesalad wrote: post #45
Claudus wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, what is your basis for wearing a mask?

Even if 10 years from now we discover that wearing a mask was a completely pointless endeavor .... the cost of wearing a mask is SO LOW that it is worth doing it. But it is scientifically proven to limit the rate of the spread, which is the least I can do to protect myself and those around me. I don't care if I get covid ... I don't think it will kill me based on my vitals. However, we don't fully understand the long…

What I don't get, is even for the people saying that the symptoms are like the flu. Clearly they don't remember having the flu, because if I can wear a mask to avoid any fever, that is a reasonable cost to me.

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#209

Post by eej71 »

whalesalad wrote: post #45
Claudus wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, what is your basis for wearing a mask?

Even if 10 years from now we discover that wearing a mask was a completely pointless endeavor .... the cost of wearing a mask is SO LOW that it is worth doing it. But it is scientifically proven to limit the rate of the spread, which is the least I can do to protect myself and those around me. I don't care if I get covid ... I don't think it will kill me based on my vitals. However, we don't fully understand the long…

A counter point to consider - and one that I consider to be a little more rational - is that - what if in the messaging to get people to wear masks - we have inadvertantly encouraged riskier behavior?

As an analogy, I'd explain it like this. What if in the process to encourage people to wear seatbelts, drivers who did that then felt entitled to drive even faster thus resulting in even worse accidents and more frequent ones at that. Of course, no driver would actually think like that.

While I wear my mask, I do wonder about its overall effectiveness especially if in total we all engage in riskier behavior that we wouldn't have otherwise if we simply lived with the basic fear that you have to stay away from everyone.

Masks "help", but maybe they "help" most by thinking of them as not a help at all. It's a tough paradox to encode into public health messaging.

Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'

#210

Post by question000 »

TheGrim-999 wrote: post #174
aazaa wrote: post #77

Politics seems to be a factor here, but I wonder how much of this has to do with popular culture. Over the last 20 years we've been bombarded with metric tons of Apocalypse porn, a lot of it focused on killer viruses. Most of those movies are unrealistic to put it mildly. Zombies. Deserted cities. Rotting corpses on sidewalks. Visible, palpable nauseating death. This pandemic is nothing like those movies. I know of n…

Ironically, the notion that the President called the virus a hoax is itself the hoax. He never said that, and you can't quote him saying that. He did call the media's reaction to the virus a hoax, which the media of course then took out of context and reinterpreted in the worst way possible. But in our post-truth world we now have mainstream media taking quotes out of context and reinterpreting them to create their p…

Here is the exact quote:

"One of my people came up to me and said, ‘Mr. President, they tried to beat you on Russia, Russia, Russia. That didn’t work out too well. They couldn’t do it. They tried the impeachment hoax. That was on a perfect conversation. They tried anything, they tried it over and over, they’ve been doing it since you got in. It’s all turning, they lost, it’s all turning. Think of it. Think of it. And this is their new hoax. But you know, we did something that’s been pretty amazing. But you know, we did something that’s been pretty amazing. We’re 15 people [cases of coronavirus infection] in this massive country. And because of the fact that we went early, we went early, we could have had a lot more than that."

He literally says "this is their new hoax." Referring to COVID.

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