Earlier quoted context omitted.
Out of curiosity, what is your basis for wearing a mask?
Countries with dense populations, nearly universal mask wear, and also only minimally 'locked down' have very low Covid19 rates. Examples include Japan, South Korea and China. In my mind, the above facts are really all that's necessary: dense population + minimal lock down + universal mask wear == low Covid19 rates. There are many other good reasons as well.
South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'
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Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'
#172My wife and I just moved from Orange County, CA to Detroit, MI this last August. We decided to drive the northern route. Heading through Vegas, Utah, Yellowstone and Montana. Then onward through the plains of North Dakota and Minnesota. Turning north we entered Wisconsin and finally the UP (Upper Peninsula) of Michigan. After a few days exploring we turned south to Detroit. In Vegas the concern for masks started to w…
Out of curiosity, what is your basis for wearing a mask?
First of all, we need central coordination to have a chance to beat something like covid19. Information about it increases daily and news outlets are notoriously bad about getting science-facts correct. Human-to-human communication (aka: let's play telephone) is demonstrably bad at keeping a coherent message. This all leads us to:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/masking-scien... [Nov 10, 2020]
This lists actual studies based on human populations and outbreaks that indicate mask wearing is effective. It also lists references if you want to dive into the sources for yourself.
Bottom line: this isn't about belief in masks. It's about belief in real world results.
Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
The outbreak in the US is not particularly "outsized" compared to other developed countries: https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-chart/?areas=usa&areas=fra&are...
This is not meant to be a rebuttal to your comment, but a discussion. Consider the case of South Korea and Japan. 1. Dense populations. 2. Very little Covid19. 3. Relatively low lock-down related economic impact. 4. Nearly universal mask wear. Honest question: what else do we need to know? I strongly suspect that if the United States, or any other country, had nearly universal mask wearing, we'd have a strong economy…
You point to South Korea, and then claim it's the masks. But there's a bunch of other stuff they're also doing (because of their experience with coronaviruses): earlier lockdown, harder lockdown, much better test trace and isolate programmes, more social adherence to prevention measures such as hand washing and distancing and mask wearing, people with symptoms choosing to self-isolate, travel restrictions, etc.
You need all of it at the same time, but especially distancing.
Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'
#174Politics seems to be a factor here, but I wonder how much of this has to do with popular culture. Over the last 20 years we've been bombarded with metric tons of Apocalypse porn, a lot of it focused on killer viruses. Most of those movies are unrealistic to put it mildly. Zombies. Deserted cities. Rotting corpses on sidewalks. Visible, palpable nauseating death. This pandemic is nothing like those movies. I know of n…
But in our post-truth world we now have mainstream media taking quotes out of context and reinterpreting them to create their propaganda, citizens will then constantly parrot the propaganda on Reddit/Twitter/Facebook/etc., and if enough people have been convinced that Trump called covid a hoax, it apparently becomes "true" and never goes away. If someone sees 1,000 people on Reddit saying he called it a hoax, well now you have 1,001 people that go around parroting it, and it just spreads and never dies, even though it's completely detached from reality.
Even more ironically, the story itself is just further propaganda that is detached from reality. Of course there's people that DO think the virus itself isn't real. Just like there's people that believe the earth is flat. But the vast majority of people that don't give a flip about the virus are doing it not because they think it isn't real, they're doing it because the data shows it's a coronavirus that's 2-3 times deadlier than the flu. That's it. Just like you mentioned. Shutting down and destroying the country over a virus that's 2-3 times deadlier than the flu is absolutely absurd. They stopped buying into the fear porn and they're going on with their lives.
Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
Here's a quote from Robert Redfield, the director of CDC. > We are not defenseless against COVID-19. Cloth face coverings are one of the most powerful weapons we have to slow and stop the spread of the virus -- particularly when used universally within a community setting. All Americans have a responsibility to protect themselves, their families, and their communities. I trust his expertise and judgment. What's the b…
I’d say the basis in the US is freedoms guaranteed by The Constitution, just like the basis for smoking, drinking, using recreational drugs, having an unhealthy diet, riding a motorcycle, not exercising regularly, etc.
Citing “the freedoms guaranteed by The Constitution” is fairly meaningless in the abstract. There are specific protections and rights afforded by the Constitution that have been defined in the actual constitutional text and whose interpretation has been refined through legislation and the courts. Those are what you should be able to point to rather than vaguely gesturing at some poorly-defined concept of “freedoms.”
Not unsurprisingly, there is a record of jurisprudence permitting limitations on freedom of association, movement, etc. during public health crises. Are you suggesting that that the decisions in those cases are somehow opposed to the (actual, specific) text of the Constitution? If so, what specific provisions are being violated?
Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'
#176Basically the US’s complete disregard for public education is now coming to a head. I remember one study that said the US students were one of the lowest in terms of education but the absolute highest in terms of self confidence. We are reaping what we have sowed for decades now. We have such a vast uneducated population that this coronavirus is almost more like a horrifying culling of the uneducated than anything el…
The public health authorities in the United States spent 6 weeks pretending the coronavirus didn't exist, then another 6 weeks publicly saying masks didn't work, before saying that you must wear them and if you don't you're stupid and dumb (without really bothering to explain why or ever admitting they had changed their opinion), and then 4 weeks later said that it was OK to shout and march in the streets by the tens…
Around here, government construction projects were allowed to continue while private ones were halted. Outdoor walks encouraged, but fishing disallowed. And plenty more.
Now, indoor dining and gyms are closed again even though they are not contributing to the recent spike.
Also, don't forget the well publicized disregard of restrictions by some politicians who enacted or advocate for those same restrictions.
The giant funeral for John Lewis was a special case too. Back then funerals for little people had severe restrictions.
The number of deaths in my 2.5million pop. urban county has been 1 per day since mid-June. The number of cases has gone up and down since then till now with no variance in deaths.
At a certain point people get tired of the bullshit.
Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'
#177Yes, the pandemic fatigue is real. Yes, it would be wonderful to hang out with my friends in person, or to drive 100 miles crossing the border to go visit my children. But the reason this is lasting so long, and things are shutting back down is because people are ignoring the truth. You can talk about the economy all day long, but the fact of the matter is that if we all would’ve taken this seriously and shut everyth…
> But the reason this is lasting so long... Masks and social distancing and banning birthday parties are not about speeding up or ending the pandemic but slowing it down (to minimize deaths) until a vaccine is ready. This is what 'flattening the curve' is all about. It's also weird to see Canada among your success stories. Their 'worst of it' is right now. We're fighting with misinformation alright.
Not quite. NZ took the route of hard lock down early, 30 days (2 infection cycles). They basically managed to get covid to burn itself out, so they're just dealing with imported cases, and contact tracing the heck out of out them to bust any potential clusters.
Canada's lockdown isn't nearly as long, and people didn't take it nearly as seriously. PHAC dragged their heels on mask use; and now on rating COVID as potential aerosol risk. We did it all half-assed, the province didn't use the time to really amp up contact tracing, learning techniques from jurisdictions that had success, such as South Korea, or Taiwan; nor did we really make testing work during the summer lull. The Feds didn't / can't squeeze some kind of national standard in dealing with things, in part because of the minority government, and in other parts of not knowing when doing the right thing matter more than dealing with idealists bitching about divisions of power.
We get cold faster and longer, and people tend to stay inside, so there can be more clusters. I'd expect things to get worse.
Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
Out of curiosity, what is your basis for wearing a mask?
Even if 10 years from now we discover that wearing a mask was a completely pointless endeavor .... the cost of wearing a mask is SO LOW that it is worth doing it. But it is scientifically proven to limit the rate of the spread, which is the least I can do to protect myself and those around me. I don't care if I get covid ... I don't think it will kill me based on my vitals. However, we don't fully understand the long…
Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even if 10 years from now we discover that wearing a mask was a completely pointless endeavor .... the cost of wearing a mask is SO LOW that it is worth doing it. But it is scientifically proven to limit the rate of the spread, which is the least I can do to protect myself and those around me. I don't care if I get covid ... I don't think it will kill me based on my vitals. However, we don't fully understand the long…
>cost of wearing a mask is SO LOW that it is worth doing it tell that to people work in warehouse/food service. Its makes they already hard job even more harder.
Re: South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist Covid-19 'not real'
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
Given that we're seeing the same spike in our big, coastal metro areas, perhaps the problem is more complicated than rural attitudes towards Covid. [0] https://outbreak.info/epidemiology?location=METRO_42660%3BME...
NY: 231 cases per million SD: 1609 cases per million https://www.covidexitstrategy.org/
High five, I guess.